Author |
|
Michael Penn Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 12708
|
Posted: 06 March 2014 at 4:42pm | IP Logged | 1
|
|
|
Anyone who thinks Holocaust survivors en masse channeled a drive for revenge by warring on Arabs is nuts.
Magneto as a Holocaust survivor is absolutely repugnant.
Lee-Kirby modeled him as a Nazi supremacist. That Magneto was a madman, vying with Xavier as the most powerful mutant, drunk with that power, and slopping over with sick, twisted evil, that's more than enough to explain this villain.
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
|
Doug Campbell Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 March 2008 Location: United States Posts: 367
|
Posted: 06 March 2014 at 5:54pm | IP Logged | 2
|
|
|
Anyone who thinks Holocaust survivors en masse channeled a drive for revenge by warring on Arabs is nuts
Well, then it's indeed good that nobody in this thread was arguing that. As for the rest, I am content to disagree, for the reasons previously stated.
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
|
Robert White Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4560
|
Posted: 07 March 2014 at 12:47am | IP Logged | 3
|
|
|
QUOTE:
Is that a secondary mutation? Fans -- and some pros -- often call up the "ages slowly" dodge, but it creates problems of its own. Such as When did this slowing of the aging process kick in? Puberty, like other mutant powers? If so, how long did it take Magneto to get from 13ish to 40ish (as seen in the first issue)? It stretches his timeline back further and further. |
|
|
In all cases where I've heard a creator go into details*, long-lived characters are said to age normally until either puberty (for mutants, which makes it easy) or till they physically become an adult. (Though I recall and Eternal named Sprite that stayed a child, physically)
I've always wondered how this worked for Thor and Loki. We saw them having adventurers as children, but being gods, they don't play by the same rules a mutants.
*Actually, this might be old Handbook lore creeping into my memory.
Edited by Robert White on 07 March 2014 at 12:48am
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
|
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133317
|
Posted: 07 March 2014 at 7:53am | IP Logged | 4
|
|
|
There are SO many problems with introducing the notion that Magneto does not age like the rest of us. Beyond those mentioned, there is the fact that this would surely be something that would play a major part in who the character is. Remember, according to current Marvel lore, he was an adult, with children, when incarcerated in the death camps. (Singer tried to get around this by making him a child, then, but we still end up with the Old Guy problem.) So if aging starts to slow at puberty, we again have to ask how many years there are BEFORE he marries and has children? When I was working on FANTASTIC FOUR, I received a very serious and sincere letter from a fan who suggested that the radiation in the blood of various characters not only slowed down their own aging process, but also that of people around them. Thus, for example, the fact that Peter Parker was himself "radioactive" kept Aunt May, and JJJ, and Harry, and Liz, and MJ, and all the rest, including villains who were exposed to him, from aging! Of course, the central flaw in this -- beyond the obvious creation of a knot of "ageless" people who might THEMSELVES be inclined to notice something was amiss, even if NOBODY ELSE did -- is the presumption that characters with "radiation origins" are themselves RADIOACTIVE. While this might be true on some level for the Hulk, there's really no reason to make the assumption for Spider-Man, the FF, or (especially) the X-Men. It's an abuse of the whole concept of how radioactivity works, for one thing. While Stan did ten to use radiation like magic in the early days of Marvel, there should be a limit to how far you can go with this. The spider that bit Peter Parker was irradiated to the point that she became radioactive, and that was LETHAL. Almost instantly so. As it would be in the real world. Willing suspension of disbelief is important in this fantasy world, but that should not extend too far.
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
|
Bob Simko Byrne Robotics Security
Negative Mod
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 5982
|
Posted: 07 March 2014 at 11:16am | IP Logged | 5
|
|
|
When I was working on FANTASTIC FOUR, I received a very serious and sincere letter from a fan who suggested that the radiation in the blood of various characters not only slowed down their own aging process, but also that of people around them. Thus, for example, the fact that Peter Parker was himself "radioactive" kept Aunt May, and JJJ, and Harry, and Liz, and MJ, and all the rest, including villains who were exposed to him, from aging! ****************
I think at some point in the 80's maybe, Roy Thomas might have played with this idea for the JSA characters.
IMHO...no need to address the issue...just have fun with good stories.
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
|
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133317
|
Posted: 07 March 2014 at 4:29pm | IP Logged | 6
|
|
|
Having fun with good stories gets harder to do when the characters are tied to real world events. Captain America's early career is tied to WW2, but the point at which he came out of the ice has no fixed time. Imagine creating Ground Zero, a superhero whose origin is linked to 9/11. No way to ignore the passing years without negating something of the character.
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
|
Thomas Francis Tryon Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 March 2013 Location: United States Posts: 107
|
Posted: 08 March 2014 at 12:20am | IP Logged | 7
|
|
|
Just intoduce the ideas that for Super-Heroes and Villains to be "frozen in age" or to mature v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y, and that a psycho dressed as a flying rat has endangered many children, are so unrealistic that we are cancelling all X-Men, Batman, and even tangentially related titles. Then watch the "realism crowd" suddenly have an epiphany that good stories with good art and good values are all that really what matters.
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
|
Robert White Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4560
|
Posted: 08 March 2014 at 3:13am | IP Logged | 8
|
|
|
This is why I no longer think superheros being set in the current day and date is a good idea. Like JB and others have pointed out, many of these stories, using references to twitter or MySpace or whatever, are dated as soon as they hit the stands. I think this sort of thing is better suited for non-superhero titles where pop culture is almost as important as the characters themselves.
The freedom the creators of BTAS and the Batman Adventures comics had must have been liberating.
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
|
Dale Lerette Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 24 March 2010 Location: Canada Posts: 750
|
Posted: 08 March 2014 at 7:39am | IP Logged | 9
|
|
|
Willing suspension of disbelief is important in this fantasy world, but that should not extend too far. *********************** I agree. But “not extending too far” is that nebulous region where it can get complicated. Each person's mileage can vary a lot concerning what they are willing to suspend belief on. I generally stopped reading comics in my early 20’s because they seemed…well…silly. I can still look back on those older comics from my teen age years with enjoyment. But actually going full bloom into collecting again would be very unlikely. On the flip side, others can enjoy collecting them well into their 50’s or 60’s. It just doesn’t bother them.
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
|
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133317
|
Posted: 08 March 2014 at 11:39am | IP Logged | 10
|
|
|
Not extending too far would basically cover elements with which the audience is familiar in the real world. Saying Superman flies because he does isn't really something that can be disputed. Flushing a .45 automatic down a conventional toilet, on the other hand....
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
|
Andrew Bitner Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 7526
|
Posted: 08 March 2014 at 3:59pm | IP Logged | 11
|
|
|
Saying characters *and their supporting casts* age slowly is a huge cheat and something that would get noticed within a handful of years. ("Geez, I thought I was supposed to stop getting acne long before I turned 38... and the girl next door is a grandmother!") I much prefer JB's approach in FF, where fixed historical info simply isn't mentioned. Maybe some future writer will just ignore that Magneto was once thought to be a Holocaust survivor... We can only hope.
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
|
Kip Lewis Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2011 Posts: 2880
|
Posted: 08 March 2014 at 5:30pm | IP Logged | 12
|
|
|
Or they will create a fictional war with concentration camps. (The Soviet Gulags could probably work but again that still a fixed point in time. )
Except then you probably will get people getting upset that they are glossing over the Nazis. I remember the last Captain America movie, some people were getting upset by Hydra's presence. They thought they were replacing Nazis with a fictional villain, like they did in the cartoon.
Edited by Kip Lewis on 08 March 2014 at 5:34pm
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
|