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Gundars Berzins Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 March 2012 Location: United States Posts: 1562
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Posted: 05 March 2014 at 2:19pm | IP Logged | 1
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Ya know, if Stan and Jack -- both Jewish, both of the WW2 generation -- had wanted Magneto to be a Jewish freedom fighter, I gots ta think they wouldn't had done this…
• • • •
Also this was the character to lead the X-Men after I stopped reading the book? Sheez.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133317
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Posted: 05 March 2014 at 2:21pm | IP Logged | 2
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…if Magneto is now (inexplicably) a Holocaust survivor…•• And, as I have said before, this "revelation" really worked only during the eight and a half minutes it was happening. Consider: Magneto was turned into a baby, and then aged back to adulthood. Okay, fine. Standard comicbook fare, and it explained (all those years ago) how a Holocaust survivor could be so young and healthy.* This, of course, was not an option available to Bryan Singer, to so play the Holocaust card in the first X-Men movie, he had to make Magneto a Really Old Guy. Which means we get the young and healthy X-Men beating up on a Really Old Guy. And here's the catch: if we apply "Marvel Time", then that first issue of X-MEN took place around eight or nine years ago -- which means in that issue the young and healthy X-Men were beating up on a Really Old Guy. There's really no level on which the Holocaust survivor bit works. _________ * Tho that was not the intent of the Magneto/baby story. That was years before the Holocause "reveal".
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Andrew Bitner Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 7526
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Posted: 05 March 2014 at 8:00pm | IP Logged | 3
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I know I'd prefer it if we could undo that bit of "reveal." The worst is, this ties Magneto to a time in history that is now VERY far away and getting farther. It's possible to cheat the effects of aging with comic book hand-waving, but... argh. Trying to square this circle is making my head hurt.
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Brandon Scott Berthelot Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 May 2006 Location: United States Posts: 560
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Posted: 06 March 2014 at 6:56am | IP Logged | 4
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The X-Men cartoon got around this by not talking about the Holocaust (not that they could have anyway) and just saying Magneto was a survivor of an ethnic cleansing (not in those words). They keep happening all over the world so it would be easy to update him like they have with Iron Man. But as it has been said, the Nazis are the best super villains.
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Robert White Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4560
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Posted: 06 March 2014 at 9:07am | IP Logged | 5
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I was under the impression that Magento simply aged slower than most everyone else, like Wolverine. This might simply be my own assumptions creeping in, as I've read little X-Men past the Claremont/Paul Smith run. It wouldn't be a stretch given what he can do. (Not only can he manipulate magnetism, but he can also manipulate light, heat, gravity, radiation, has telepathy and can astral project!)
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Stephen Robinson Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5835
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Posted: 06 March 2014 at 9:59am | IP Logged | 6
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Holocaust survivor is the origin of a super hero not a super villain. Magneto is a white supremacist who is objectively correct (mutants are superior to humans) and is so evil and selfish, he sees that fact as an excuse to oppress mankind, whereas Prof. X believes mutants have a responsibility to use their powers to aid everyone. Power and responsibility was a big theme in early Marvel. Abuse of that power and rejection of the responsibility had repercussions on a mythic scale (Dr. Strange, Thor, Spider-Man, and so on).
Magneto is old enough to have adult children. That places him around his late '30s or his early 50s at most. My preference is that he's eternally 40ish .
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133317
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Posted: 06 March 2014 at 10:05am | IP Logged | 7
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I was under the impression that Magento simply aged slower than most everyone else, like Wolverine.•• Is that a secondary mutation? Fans -- and some pros -- often call up the "ages slowly" dodge, but it creates problems of its own. Such as When did this slowing of the aging process kick in? Puberty, like other mutant powers? If so, how long did it take Magneto to get from 13ish to 40ish (as seen in the first issue)? It stretches his timeline back further and further.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133317
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Posted: 06 March 2014 at 10:07am | IP Logged | 8
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Magneto is old enough to have adult children. That places him around his late '30s or his early 50s at most. My preference is that he's eternally 40ish .** My impression of Wanda and Pietro, when they were first introduced, was that they were teenagers, like the X-Men. This played into my suggestion that they were Magneto's children. Of course, both have been aged (as have the X-Men) WAY past the teen years, so that whole aging characters problem shows up yet again.
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Stephen Bergstrom Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 December 2004 Location: United States Posts: 522
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Posted: 06 March 2014 at 10:30am | IP Logged | 9
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Clearly, in addition to being a mutant and a holocaust survivor, Magneto is also a time lord.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133317
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Posted: 06 March 2014 at 2:00pm | IP Logged | 10
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…Magneto is also a time lord.•• That would explain why he looked like an old boxer in his first appearance, and like a matinee idol when Neal Adams drew him without the helmet for the first time!
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Doug Campbell Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 March 2008 Location: United States Posts: 367
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Posted: 06 March 2014 at 4:18pm | IP Logged | 11
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I see your point. At the same time, I kinda see the abused becoming the abuser.
•• Can you cite a real world example, specific to the Holocaust?
A good 20,000 or so Holocaust survivors joined the IDF and fought in Israel's War of Independence and some of subsequent wars between Israel and its neighbors. Obviously opinions vary about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and which side is in the right, but I think most reasonable observers would acknowledge substantial abuses of Palestinians in the occupied territories. If that's not sufficient, one might point to Chaim Rumkowski, the head of the Lodz ghetto, who used Jewish police units in a fairly vicious manner to control his fellow Jews, and ultimately to help the Germans round up much of the ghetto's population and deport it to Auschwitz. The camps all featured Jewish kapos to help maintain them as well. Suffering is not ennobling. One only has to read even a few of the accounts of life in the ghettos or the camps to see that victims of Nazi brutality could and did sometimes themselves become brutal. That loss of human decency by a certain portion of the victims was yet another way in which they harmed by the experience. Count me among those who think that particular bit of backstory made Magneto more interesting. He was one of a good half dozen fairly generic megalomaniacal would-be dictators in 1960s Marvel Comics. I think Claremont's revision made his character more three dimensional and his paranoia and willingness to murder and dominate in the name of mutant-kind more understandable.
Edited by Doug Campbell on 06 March 2014 at 5:55pm
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133317
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Posted: 06 March 2014 at 4:26pm | IP Logged | 12
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Power corrupts. That's a truism as old as humanity. We don't need the Holocaust to "explain" Magneto. (Rather than making the character "more interesting," there are some, including myself, who find it distinctly distasteful.)
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