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Bill Sandefur
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Joined: 21 August 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 118
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| Posted: 04 March 2014 at 12:16am | IP Logged | 1
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Brian, that is page 19 from Captain America #158 (c1973), with art by Sal Buscema.
(Edited to add artist's name)
Edited by Bill Sandefur on 04 March 2014 at 12:18am
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Conrad Teves
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 January 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 2230
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| Posted: 04 March 2014 at 12:51am | IP Logged | 2
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For more retro art (and if you don't mind your free time being devoured), check out this: http://www.openculture.com/2014/03/download-15000-free-golde n-age-comics-from-the-digital-comic-museum.html
NOTE: You do need to register and have a (free) .cbr reader. Once done, it's all easy.
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Wallace Sellars
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 17699
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| Posted: 04 March 2014 at 11:40am | IP Logged | 3
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Cap and the Falcon switched sides. Oh, and how did Sam get that far behind
the shield slinger?
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Martin Arlt
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Joined: 16 April 2004
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Posts: 879
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| Posted: 04 March 2014 at 3:23pm | IP Logged | 4
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Did they change sides, or are they running away?
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James Howell
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Joined: 23 September 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 363
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| Posted: 04 March 2014 at 4:15pm | IP Logged | 5
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That shield strike from Cap looks so weak, it's looks like the guy got hit with a Styrofoam shield. I'm surprised the guy fell off his bike. Anytime you see Cap throwing his shield, you need to show how devastating it is to get hit by it. Really boring layout. It's like I said, too many indie cartoonists, and straight illustrators are doing Superhero comics, but they don't know how to actually do Superhero ACTION. Especially Marvel style action. Don't even get me started on those weak-looking sound effects...yeesh..
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Marshall Stewart
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Joined: 26 June 2012
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| Posted: 04 March 2014 at 4:55pm | IP Logged | 6
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This is a most interesting discussion. Learning some new things....
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Andrew W. Farago
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Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 05 March 2014 at 1:11pm | IP Logged | 7
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I'm trying to figure out if we're getting the more detail-oriented, real-world art because it's what the fans seem to want, because it's what the editors want, because it's what the artists think will get them hired, because slick computer coloring lends itself to more realistic art, or something else entirely that I'm overlooking.
If someone who drew exactly like Ron Frenz were trying to get work today, would his editors tell him to tone down the action and play up the realism? Would they relegate him to a kids' book or licensing art? Would his art be popular if he were on Thor's solo title? It feels like a lot of the more distinctive artists (and veterans) are relegated to second- and third-tier books that aren't marketed very well, and that's somehow seen as proof that readers aren't interested in the "retro" stuff.
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Greg Woronchak
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Joined: 04 September 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1631
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| Posted: 05 March 2014 at 1:50pm | IP Logged | 8
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I think certain pros decide to fill pages with unnecessary detail to justify the long amount of time spent on them, as well as create a piece that will sell well on the secondary market. Comics has become more about dollars and cents, rather than a distinct love of the medium (as far as I can tell).
I've seen folk online rave about pages loaded with texture and line work, yet weak on posing or story-telling. I'm guessing editorial notes these raves, and gives the masses what they think they want (a big sin, IMO).
I find the same thing is happening in 3D animation (including video games); the overall look is tending toward hyper-realism (which I find boring, I mean, why should I care that every single hair is defined?), with interesting styles popping up in indie films.
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Charles Valderrama
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| Posted: 05 March 2014 at 1:56pm | IP Logged | 9
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I'd guess that when Bryan Hitch and Frank Quitely came on the scene and were given high profile books (ULTIMATES, ASTONISHING X-MEN) that marketing-wise sold very well, the trend toward "realistic, static" storytelling/artwork began to dominate the medium.
I've often suggested Marvel come out with another imprint called "Marvel Comics Group" that would appeal to the "retro" fans out there.
-C!
Edited by Charles Valderrama on 05 March 2014 at 1:57pm
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Mark Haslett
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| Posted: 05 March 2014 at 2:35pm | IP Logged | 10
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This page is like one of those pages in How To Draw Comics The Marvel Way that shows how "the OTHER guys do it".
Falcon, a flying character, is walking along with Cap when he could be carrying them both.
The bad guys come leaping out, with a trajectory to land beyond the heroes... then somehow land on ground they've already flown over.
Cap's toss, as noted, is half-hearted. The shield seems to be floating and then to flip between frames.
Falcon mysteriously shifts from one side of Cap to the other, between panels, in the split second it takes Cap's shield to reach him...
and THEN, finally, Falcon starts to fly.
It's like our heroes are reluctant and modest. Imagining John Buscema's "how WE do it page" immediately calls to mind a few obvious changes, like having the big tank and bikes come over the ridge straight toward camera while Falcon and Cap react by LEAPING into action!
This example does not seem extreme-- it feels like this is right in line with current storytelling technique. Strange days indeed.
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James Howell
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Joined: 23 September 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 363
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| Posted: 05 March 2014 at 6:58pm | IP Logged | 11
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There's TWO bikers..Cap took care of one, what happened to the other one in the first panel? If it's 2 on 2, why is this page showing the bad guys attacking one at a time? Falcon and the second cyclist are waiting patiently for Cap's shield to come back, before they engage each other, I guess...
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Bill Sandefur
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Joined: 21 August 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 118
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| Posted: 06 March 2014 at 6:29pm | IP Logged | 12
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Andrew Farago wrote: I'm trying to figure out if we're getting the more detail-oriented, real-world art because it's what the fans seem to want, because it's what the editors want, because it's what the artists think will get them hired, because slick computer coloring lends itself to more realistic art, or something else entirely that I'm overlooking.
**********************************************
I've had these exact same thoughts. Has comic art changed because the fans wanted it to, or did it change because some muckity muck decided he didn't like traditional comic art, (Joe Quesada I'm looking at you).
I know I didn't get a vote.
A friend of mine who works at a comic store told me the new art is what people prefer because that's what's selling. And I argue with him,"That's because they don't have a choice." It's like saying "We took it upon ourselves to completely change comics and comic art, and some people are still buying them, so that proves this is what everyone wants." Ridiculous.
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Topic Closed)
