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Kevin Hagerman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2005 Location: United States Posts: 18033
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Posted: 22 February 2014 at 10:26pm | IP Logged | 1
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Marvel lost their soul when the stockholders started running the business. ---- It's the difference between "Let's make money telling stories!" and "Let's make more money than last quarter, no matter how."
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Geoff Lander Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 190
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Posted: 23 February 2014 at 11:15am | IP Logged | 2
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Hey, Mr. Byrne. I am unaware of the 180 degree "camera" rule. Is the movement of the camera to a 180 degree view supposed to be a "single, continuous action" or should Thor's action be completed before moving the camera 180 degrees? (I hope that makes sense.) Thank you.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133324
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Posted: 23 February 2014 at 11:21am | IP Logged | 3
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The 180° rule usually doesn't apply to a moving camera. There, the audience can actually watch as the line of sight crosses the line, so there should be no confusion.The problem arises, in movies and comics, when the line is crossed in distinct shots, as on that THOR page. Like I said, the impression is that he's turned around. The first time I was made aware of this effect was in a comic featuring a group shot, several characters at a funeral. In the first shot, one of them was facing to the left, talking to the others in the group. In the next panel, tho, she was facing right, while continuing the conversation. There was a moment of disorientation, as if she had turned to speak to someone entering from the right. Again, it's a mistake I've made myself, more than a few times (tho I hope less and less over the span of my career), so I do not offer this as any kind of pontification. Merely a warning to young artists of something of which they need to be aware.
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Brennan Voboril Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 January 2011 Posts: 1741
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Posted: 23 February 2014 at 11:53am | IP Logged | 4
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I'd almost call it good vs bad art not modern art vs retro art. Is it a generational thing? In other words, has the influence of Kirby diminished over time? I see Kirby as having the most influence on comic super-hero art (especially Marvel's 60s-70s-80s art)?
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Eric Ladd Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 4505
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Posted: 23 February 2014 at 12:32pm | IP Logged | 5
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Geoff, in film making when you have a stationary shot, you draw an imaginary line on the set dividing the set and only position cameras on one side of that line. Sometimes called the "eyeline" because the imaginary line is drawn from one person's eyes to the other person's eyes on set where a conversation is taking place. Once you establish actor A and B in the camera frame you don't cross that line or they will swap sides in the shot and ruin continuity for the viewer.
Many general rules in film making can apply to comic books for visual story telling, but the mediums are different. The next time you are in a book store check out any book on "Master Shots" and see how many examples translate to comic book panels.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133324
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Posted: 23 February 2014 at 1:23pm | IP Logged | 6
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Geoff, in film making when you have a stationary shot, you draw an imaginary line on the set dividing the set and only position cameras on one side of that line. Sometimes called the "eyeline" because the imaginary line is drawn from one person's eyes to the other person's eyes on set where a conversation is taking place. Once you establish actor A and B in the camera frame you don't cross that line or they will swap sides in the shot and ruin continuity for the viewer.••• You seem to have accidentally mixed your terms there, Eric. The 180 degree line is at right angles to the eyeline. The eyeline, or sightline, is the direction in which the camera is "looking." (I've sometimes wondered why the 180 degree line isn't called the 90 degree line! Perhaps because it extends 90 degrees from both sides of the camera.) This can get confusing, of course, because the eyeline can so describe the path between the eyes of two people who are looking at each other -- and that's often at 90 degrees to the camera's "eyeline".
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Steven Legge Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 July 2012 Location: Canada Posts: 866
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Posted: 23 February 2014 at 1:40pm | IP Logged | 7
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I just grabbed this off google images. So read what Eric wrote and it pretty much explains the diagram. In film it's basically a means to keep the audience from getting confused by having actors in the same relative spatial arrangement across different shots so when things are edited together Actor A is always on the left of the screen, and actor B is always to the right. In the example below Cameras A and C can also be over-the shoulder shots in which case the actors are still in the same spacial area, even though you might be looking at the back of their heads.
In film the 180 degree rule can also be broken intentionally to draw attention to itself. Kubrick did that fairly regularly, the instance that comes to mind is the "You've always been the caretaker here" bathroom scene in the Shining.
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Eric Ladd Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 4505
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Posted: 23 February 2014 at 2:25pm | IP Logged | 8
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That's it. Memory not what it used to be. =) Standing corrected.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133324
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Posted: 23 February 2014 at 2:51pm | IP Logged | 9
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We should note that in the image Steven has posted, Figure 6.8 illustrates what happens when the 180° line is crossed. The woman (B) is suddenly facing to the right. Has she turned around?Basically, the rule is to prevent the camera making moves that would not be experienced by normal vision. Is we are looking at those two people sitting at the table in real life, we can walk around the the other side (as a camera can move), and there's no confusion. But our eyes can't jump to the other side of the view, so there can be confusion.
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Geoff Lander Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 190
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Posted: 23 February 2014 at 10:36pm | IP Logged | 10
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Hey, I appreciate the replies and information.
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Charles Valderrama Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4830
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Posted: 03 March 2014 at 9:40am | IP Logged | 11
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What's wrong with this page? Just doesn't have (to me) the dynamics required with comic book action.
Edited by Charles Valderrama on 03 March 2014 at 9:40am
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Peter Martin Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 15953
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Posted: 03 March 2014 at 10:21am | IP Logged | 12
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Why are Jawas attacking Cap and the Falcon?
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