| Author |
|
Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 35950
|
| Posted: 08 February 2014 at 12:04am | IP Logged | 1
|
|
|
Dave...c'mon. Of course he questioned being Spider-Man. That makes for great drama. One of his biggest issues was ditching the costume and the identity. And of course he felt an obligation to being Spier-Man due in no small part to his role in Uncle Ben's death. Because I say it was an escape isn't the same as saying he wouldn't put on the suit to fight a threat he felt responsible to stop. But to boil it all down to an obligation that needed to be fulfilled as if he was Batman? No, sorry. I don't see it that way at all. He does what he does because of responsibility, but he also does it because it's an escape. He's free. He can be someone he's not in real life. He's not confident as Peter Parker, at least the one I know. He's not agressive or assertive unless it has to do with his passion: science. But he can put on the costume and feel empowered. He can joke around and have fun where he can't in real life. What did Peter do when Aunt May was sick or in trouble? Time and again he put on the suit not as an obligation, but as an escape. To me, the way you look at it is like the grim and gritty Batman in a never ending battle with villains, as a depressing obligation that he'd do anything to be rid of rather than something he actually enjoys doing. And I think he enjoys it alot, much of which has been lost over the last 30 years of dark, depressing, soul sucking storytelling that makes being a hero a burden rather than a joy.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 15775
|
| Posted: 08 February 2014 at 12:42am | IP Logged | 2
|
|
|
Agreed, Matt.
And, as I often like to point out, Peter did not immediately start fighting
crime after the murder of Ben Parker. Rather, he tried to get back
into showbiz. When that failed, he fell into superheroics gradually,
both because it was the right thing to do (saving John Jameson's space
capsule), and because it helped him make a living (taking photos of his
fight with the Vulture).
100% of retellings and recaps of Spider-Man's origin end with him
becoming a crimefighter because of the combined sense of guilt and
responsibility that his uncle's murder instilled in him.
As noted, this isn't exactly what happened in those early issues of
ASM, but the revision does provide a nice, clean shorthand for what
makes the character tick.
And, escapism is one of the things that makes him tick. It's a primal
power fantasy--when Peter puts on the mask, he can say and do all of
the things that he can't in daily life. He can swing high above the city in
an exhilarating way that no one else can, cut his foes down to size with
his jokes, and web J.J.J.'s mouth shut.
For Peter, being Spider-Man is sort of like being a positive version of
the Hulk. Whereas Bruce Banner's normal, repressed negative
emotions find dangerous expression through the Hulk, Spider-Man
allows Peter Parker to vent his everyday frustrations by becoming a
wisecracking free-spirit.
Edited by Greg Kirkman on 08 February 2014 at 12:44am
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2366
|
| Posted: 08 February 2014 at 4:25am | IP Logged | 3
|
|
|
I'd like to address the idea that adults don't start buying comics.
A lot of Manga is basically "romance comics" and women who never bought comics before suddenly found and started buying Manga (so much so, for a while there, it seemed Manga was going to be the final nail in American comics' casket). (Yes, romance comics are back! Just in an art style and format that appeals to women and usually found in nicely lit, clean, and not creepy bookstores.)
And this is anecdotal but I've seen enough of it to believe it's not rare--adult fans of certain authors like Stephen King and George R.R. Martin wander into a comic shop looking for the adaptations/continuations of their favorite books...fans who knew nothing of "regular" comics.
I think it can happen and it does happen.
Edited by Eric Jansen on 08 February 2014 at 4:30am
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Eric Ladd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 4505
|
| Posted: 08 February 2014 at 5:19am | IP Logged | 4
|
|
|
Adult comics are different from kids comics. Manga and adaptations of novels are intended for adults, not kids.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Dave Phelps
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4184
|
| Posted: 08 February 2014 at 8:43am | IP Logged | 5
|
|
|
Greg Kirkman wrote:
And, as I often like to point out, Peter did not immediately start fighting
crime after the murder of Ben Parker. Rather, he tried to get back into showbiz |
|
|
Yeah, but only because Aunt May needed money and wouldn't let him quit school and find a job. :-)
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Dave Phelps
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4184
|
| Posted: 08 February 2014 at 8:56am | IP Logged | 6
|
|
|
Matt Reed wrote:
| He does what he does because of responsibility, but he also does it because it's an escape. |
|
|
If you believe that and think you're disagreeing with me, then I think we're coming down to semantics.
For me, doing something out of a sense of guilt and responsibility makes it a burden. Not one he necessarily minds all the time (From ASM #18 - "I ENJOYED being Spider-Man! It made me feel like something SPECIAL!"), but still a burden.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Dave Phelps
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4184
|
| Posted: 08 February 2014 at 8:58am | IP Logged | 7
|
|
|
Jack Michaels wrote:
| The idea there's an "essential core" to these characters is largely a fan conceit. |
|
|
More like an attempt to quantify what it is about certain characters that allows them to succeed while others fall by the wayside.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 35950
|
| Posted: 08 February 2014 at 10:47am | IP Logged | 8
|
|
|
Eric, have we been speaking in generalities here? We've been specifically talking about Marvel and DC. American superhero comic books. Not Manga. Not adaptations. We shouldn't have to qualify our statements in this thread every time we post.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133334
|
| Posted: 08 February 2014 at 11:39am | IP Logged | 9
|
|
|
We shouldn't have to qualify our statements in this thread every time we post.••• Y'd think! A discussion of "comics" on this board is going to mean American superhero comics (often done by me!) unless another meaning is specified. Pretty simple -- tho it seems there will always be those who want to modify the statement/question, so they can provide the "answer" they want to provide. Which is one of the ways my IGNORE list grows longer.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 35950
|
| Posted: 08 February 2014 at 1:32pm | IP Logged | 10
|
|
|
Jack Michaels wrote:
| The idea that there's an "essential core" to these characters is largely a fan conceit. |
|
|
I don't agree. At all. People in real life have an "essential core" to their being. They are who they are and when they do something drastic that upsets the apple cart, friends and family react by saying that it's "out of character" for them. We're drawn to people in real life for any of a number of reasons, but a big one is who that person is; their core. I hardly think that applying that kind of real world comparison to comic book characters as being a "fan conceit" at all.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Jack Michaels
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 June 2013
Posts: 422
|
| Posted: 08 February 2014 at 2:50pm | IP Logged | 11
|
|
|
And these are fictional characters not real people. They are whatever their writers make them.
For a popular character, they're likely to stay pretty close to a default setting because that's been proven to work. But even then, they'll transform Batman from a grim avenger of the night to father figure to increase their circulation.
Less popular characters often require a good, hard look at what does and doesn't work, and sometimes that leads to their "essential core" being ejected and replaced with something they hope will transform the character into something more commercial.
What is and isn't the character just ends up being a fan pissing contest. These guys like these qualities, those guys like those qualities, and they all agree Poochie was a mistake, except for the guy drinking the Pabst Blue Ribbon. Biggest fanbase wins, until Hollywood comes along and outguns them all.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 35950
|
| Posted: 08 February 2014 at 3:08pm | IP Logged | 12
|
|
|
Jack Michaels wrote:
| And these are fictional characters not real people. |
|
|
Thanks for clarifying that. I was confused. Far be it from me to believe that fictional characters have a core of who they are. You're right, of course. Writers aren't trying to write characters to connect with readers in any imaginable way, so why should attributes associated with real people be the basis for fictional characters. Better that they change with the wind and the whims of anyone writing them.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Topic Closed)
