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Andrew W. Farago
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Posted: 07 February 2014 at 3:02am | IP Logged | 1  

My problem with Batman and Daredevil being married in a Hollywood production

That sounds like Matt Murdock's biggest court case yet.  He'd not only have to argue same-sex marriage, he'd have to get a judge to agree that inter-universe marriages are permissible, too.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 07 February 2014 at 4:55am | IP Logged | 2  

Q for the people arguing against any aging for these characters: Would you REALLY prefer Peter Parker to STILL be in high school?

•••

YES!!

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DW Zomberg
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Posted: 07 February 2014 at 7:54am | IP Logged | 3  

<Peter Parker to STILL be in high school>

Does it bother you that Archie and his friends are still teenagers, or that Bart Simpson has been in the fourth grade for twenty years?


The pro-age crowd drive me nuts--their position is SO hypocritical. They want TEENAGE characters to grow to a certain arbitrary point of adulthood, then STOP, and remain in their late twenties forever. If that's the case, why not just leave them at the point where they started? Why do Dick Grayson and Peter Parker have to get older at all?

It boils down to nothing more than a fanbase turning selfish as they grow older and become bored with the medium but too addicted to walk away.
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Robert White
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Posted: 07 February 2014 at 8:09am | IP Logged | 4  

Like I pointed out, STAN LEE is the one who aged Peter Parker to at least his early 20's? Should't those that think Peter should still be in high school take that up with the man who co-created him?

The problem with Spider-Man is that we all loved the evolution of Peter from high school/college student/college grad (debatable granted) but the only logical progression is one that's an impossibility--he continues to age. So you either keep rebooting in an endless cycle or you have to select an age, a "sweet spot", that best serves the character. I think 25 does just that. (Which, by the way, is 11 years younger than me at this point and will only continue to widen...)

Basically, my method incorporates the most important era of Spider-Man's continuity--the period from 1962-1972 when Peter actually experienced growth and evolution. (Interestingly, that lines up perfectly with my "10 year rule")
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Matt Reed
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Posted: 07 February 2014 at 8:32am | IP Logged | 5  

 Eric Jansen wrote:
Would you REALLY prefer Peter Parker to STILL be in high school?

Yes.  Same as I'm OK with Bart Simpson and Charlie Brown still being in elementary school.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 07 February 2014 at 9:08am | IP Logged | 6  

Like I pointed out, STAN LEE is the one who aged Peter Parker to at least his early 20's? Should't those that think Peter should still be in high school take that up with the man who co-created him?

••

How about the other man who co-created him? Ditko has said he felt it was a mistake to have Parker leavel high school, as that is the perfect age for the kind of character/personality they wanted Spider-Man to be.

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Marcus Hiltz
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Posted: 07 February 2014 at 9:15am | IP Logged | 7  

I think of Peter Parker as just past high school age since he only lasted in high school for about the first 2 years of his existence.  His college years make up the bulk what I think of when I think of Spider-Man (issues 28-185).  Of course I do love the Lee-Ditko high school issues before that and several stints after that.

I do agree that aging him at all was a slippery slope though!  And it doesn't have to be done! What makes Spider-Man any different than Charlie Brown, the Simpsons, or the Nancy Drew??
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John Byrne
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Posted: 07 February 2014 at 9:31am | IP Logged | 8  

What makes Spider-Man any different than Charlie Brown, the Simpsons, or the Nancy Drew??

••

I wonder if Charles Schulz ever got letters asking why Charlie Brown and the gang weren't in their sixties? Does THE SIMPSONS get such comments? (Yes -- TV GUIDE went thru a phase of complaining about the kids not aging. sigh)

Luckily, the creators of the characters stuck to their guns, and their original concepts. THE SIMPSONS has even updated their flashbacks!

Once again, as always, the problem does not lie in the product. If Peter Parker was still in high school -- AS HE SHOULD BE -- those who didn't like it would have had the choice to adopt and adjust, or to move on. For literally generations of comic fans, moving on has been a very real option. Sticking around for thirty or forty years used to be the province of the oddballs, the weirdos -- and the pros. Pros who theoretically understood the formula.

And "formula," by the way, is not a dirty word.

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Michael Penn
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Posted: 07 February 2014 at 9:39am | IP Logged | 9  

Would you REALLY prefer Peter Parker to STILL be in high school?

***

Of course. It's not like demanding that *I* should REALLY STILL be there.
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Eric Ladd
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Posted: 07 February 2014 at 9:53am | IP Logged | 10  

If Peter were still in high school I would still have a collection of Amazing Spider-Man comics and I'd be salivating as my children grew to an age where I could introduce him. Peter Parker works as a young outcast with a heroic alter ego dealing with growing up and the troubles of teenage life. I'll hold comment regarding his current situation.
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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 07 February 2014 at 10:19am | IP Logged | 11  

Would you REALLY prefer Peter Parker to STILL be in high school?

**

100%.
I wouldn't be surprised if, using a time machine or something, affecting this single change would topple dominos in such a way as to avoid most of the weird decisions that have driven the comic industry to its current state.

That's not to say I blame aging for everything, but that if the industry were able to keep its head about this issue, it would likely be able in the mind-space to avoid the similar weird decisions that drove away the young readers and moved everything to the DSM.
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Jack Michaels
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Posted: 07 February 2014 at 10:23am | IP Logged | 12  


 QUOTE:
If he aged real time since his creation in 1962, assuming he was 18 in highschool, that would make him 70 this year.  If that's my option to keeping him in highschool, heck yeah I'll take highschool.  If only on the grounds you have more story options for an 18 year-old Spider-Man than a 70 year-old one.

The question then becomes what the optimal age is, and part of that determination would be the age of the target audience.

You see, this is exactly the kind of thinking I see pros using. That the character can move around a bit to keep the character viable. 

The idea that these characters have to age in lock-step or real-time or whatever is silly buggers which only really occurs to fanboys or anal retentives. There simply are no rules apart from market forces. 

Back in the 90s, I know Green Lantern and Green Arrow were both considered older than everyone else, although in Superman GL was considered a contemporary of Superman. If you're a fanboy, you go "aha, contradiction, that means Superman is as old as GL" and you tear down the whole universe because you can't accept that two writers are on two completely different pages and you have to just sort of ignore little issues like this, because they simply don't matter.

But, whatever, back then it made sense to them to put them out there as two middle-aged heroes and it seemed to work okay for the audience they had. No real reason why you can't have a couple of older heroes running around, as they're a cool different vibe... it's the difference between Justified and Longmire.

Last time I looked at either, they seemed to have de-aged at least a decade, and that makes perfect sense, too. They're trying something else, they shifted the focus, and if the audience does notice what they did, they're trusting them to overlook it and not scream and shout "this doesn't make any sense... reboot the whole universe immediately."

The idea there's an "essential core" to these characters is largely a fan conceit. To the owners of the property, the "essential core" is they make them money, and it's the pro's job to help make that happen. If that means dramatically altering the character to fit the current market, then that's what a pro does unless he can think of a better solution which nets the desired monetary result. 

To me, this whole thread seems to be about what the perfect fan-turned-pro should be rather than any real discussion about the differences between fans and pros, because people here want a pro that thinks like they do about these characters and to honor that. 

And that's cool, even if it's more than a bit fannish. Hope they can find a large enough audience so they can keep delivering it to you. 


Edited by Jack Michaels on 07 February 2014 at 10:25am
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