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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133266
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Posted: 15 January 2014 at 8:01am | IP Logged | 1
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I got what you were saying, Anthony. I was wondering, tho, if you were aware that, in the book at least, Quasimodo's feelings for Esmeralda are NOT "unrequited".The final chapter of the book is titled "The Marriage of Quasimodo," and it ends, disturbingly, thus: "About a year and a half or two years after the events with which this history concludes, when search was made in the vault of Montfaucon for the body of Olivier le Daim, who had been hung two days previously, and to whom Charles VIII. had granted the favour to be interred in better company at St. Laurent, among these hideous car- cases were found two skeletons in a singular posture. One of these skeletons, which was that of a female, had still upon it some fragments of a dress that had once been white, and about the neck was a necklace of the seeds of adrezarach, and a little silk bag braided with green beads, which was open and empty. These things were of so little value that the hangman no doubt had not thought it worth his while to take them. The other, by which this first was closely embraced, was the skeleton of a male. It was remarked that the spine was crooked, the head depressed between the shoulders, and one leg shorter than the other. There was however no rupture of the vertebrae of the neck, and it was evident that the person to whom it belonged had not been hanged. He must have come hither and died in the place. When those who found this skeleton attempted to disengage it from that which it held in its grasp, it crumbled to dust."
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133266
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Posted: 15 January 2014 at 8:04am | IP Logged | 2
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•• Shadows that are LIGHTER than the sunlight which casts them. sigh
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Anthony J Lombardi Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005 Location: United States Posts: 9410
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Posted: 15 January 2014 at 10:57am | IP Logged | 3
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I got what you were saying, Anthony. I was wondering, tho, if you were aware that, in the book at least, Quasimodo's feelings for Esmeralda are NOT "unrequited".The final chapter of the book is titled "The Marriage of Quasimodo," and it ends, disturbingly, thus: ~~~~~~~~~~~ JB, I wasn't aware of that. Oh my goodness I understand now. It's funny how the mind can work at times.
I had forgetten that I never finished reading Victor Hugo's book. My memory must have combined elements of the book and the Lon Chaney classic.
Having been informed now I see it's not a good comparison to make.
Edited by Anthony J Lombardi on 15 January 2014 at 10:58am
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Jason Czeskleba Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004 Posts: 4620
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Posted: 15 January 2014 at 1:13pm | IP Logged | 4
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Oh man, I'm sorry I asked. Seriously? A retcon that Jean left the X-Men because she was afraid that she might "yield" to her attraction to Logan? An attraction that was apparently based only on the very brief interaction she'd had with him in GS X-Men #1? Ugh.
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Vinny Valenti Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 8113
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Posted: 15 January 2014 at 1:17pm | IP Logged | 5
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If that scene occurred after she became Phoenix, I could begrudgingly accept it. But this was right after GXM#1.
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Jason Czeskleba Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004 Posts: 4620
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Posted: 15 January 2014 at 1:37pm | IP Logged | 6
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Claremont generally does a fine job writing strong female characters, but the notion that Jean is powerless to resist the basic female urge to go for the mysterious bad boy she knows almost nothing about... that's a pretty bad misstep into some sexist stereotyping.
Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 15 January 2014 at 1:38pm
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133266
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Posted: 15 January 2014 at 1:41pm | IP Logged | 7
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Claremont generally does a fine job writing strong female characters, but the notion that Jean is powerless to resist the basic female urge to go for the mysterious bad boy she knows almost nothing about... that's a pretty bad misstep into some sexist stereotyping.•• Jean continuing to declare (and display) her love for Scott all the time she's really got the hots of Logan ---- well, that doesn't cast the fair sex in the best of lights, does it? Fact is, under Chris's hand and since, the X-Men became victims of their own success. Writers just kept digging and digging, looking for those "alternate interpretations" of established scenes.
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Jason Czeskleba Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004 Posts: 4620
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Posted: 15 January 2014 at 1:59pm | IP Logged | 8
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At that point, there was absolutely no basis for attraction between them except pheromones. It's particularly out-of-character to suggest that Jean Grey (a woman who chose scrawny, repressed Scott Summers over handsome, wealthy Warren Worthington) would respond this way.
I've never read Classic X-Men, but it looks like Chris Claremont viewed it as his opportunity to be George Lucas, eh?
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Gregory Friedman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 April 2013 Posts: 249
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Posted: 15 January 2014 at 2:25pm | IP Logged | 9
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I dunno, I think this sort of duplicity is inherent in many women. It's part of their evolutionary sexual strategy as numerous sex partners is part of natural male sexual strategy.
Women marry the stable "unscary" guy who can give them a roof over their head. But they pine over their ex-bf who had a motorcycle and was in a crappy band.
But I always saw Jean as way too intelligent/classy to ever be that attracted to Wolverine that she'd cheat on Cyclops. Shoot, Scott is a pretty durn good catch and is no shrinking violet himself. He and Jean had such a close telepathic link.
Edited by Gregory Friedman on 15 January 2014 at 2:31pm
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Eric Jansen Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013 Location: United States Posts: 2364
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Posted: 15 January 2014 at 2:43pm | IP Logged | 10
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Do these added inserts really count? I consider them the same as when the British weekly comics added a new splash page for every 6 (or whatever) page reprint installment that broke up American 22-pagers. Or things like that.
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Michael Roberts Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 14852
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Posted: 15 January 2014 at 3:22pm | IP Logged | 11
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Claremont generally does a fine job writing strong female characters,
------
I used to feel this way, but by the time he brought back Sage/Tessa as a supergenius martial artist who all along had been Xavier's secret spy, I realized he doesn't write strong female characters, he writes AWESOME! Mary Sues.
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Carmen Bernardo Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 August 2006 Location: United States Posts: 3666
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Posted: 15 January 2014 at 4:50pm | IP Logged | 12
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Going back to Michael Penn's reply, I'm thinking that I might've seen a seed of Claremont's tendency to put words in characters' mouths which led to the break with him in that panel. If not, it's just one of those little bits we see today's creative teams take out of context and blow up into the next decompressed epic plotline.
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