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Topic: Frequent reboots/renumbering? (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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David Ferguson
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Posted: 14 January 2014 at 5:50am | IP Logged | 1  

What Tom Breevort should also note: a reboot can also be a jumping off point. When Superior Spider-man ends, I'll be jumping off.
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 14 January 2014 at 6:44am | IP Logged | 2  


For decades, I never had a problem with jumping on and off a title.  I didn't need a "jumping on" point to start reading ASM.  I didn't feel hesitant to start reading FF with an issue 'round about 150.
~~~~~~~~~
I'm the same way. In fact I'll go so far as to say that I've found that the higher the issue count the more easily I accepted trying a different title. I thought if the comic made it to that many issues. It had to be good to last that long.
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Dave Phelps
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Posted: 14 January 2014 at 6:47am | IP Logged | 3  

 Andrew Farago wrote:
Marvel's recent first issues have been pretty good about being fresh(ish) starts, haven't they? 

Most of them, yeah, but they were also completely new creative teams going in fairly new directions.  (Daredevil is a decent example of that.)  Tom's comment (and mine) referred to the situations where a new #1 kept directions and creative teams in place.  Gillen's Uncanny X-Men, Jonathan Hickman's Fantastic Four, stuff like that.  It remains to be seen where Waid's Daredevil v.2 falls. 

 Andrew Farago wrote:
Is word-of-mouth on a long-running, high-numbered title viable these days?

Sure.  When people like what's going on in Batman, sales go up.  #1s will get you sales spikes, but the difference in sales between a v.4 #5 and a v.1 #630 is likely pretty negligible.  It's true that when Astonishing X-Men was the Lead X-Men book it sold the best out of all of them, but it's also true that Uncanny takes the top spot when it's considered to be the lead X-Men book.   

The books that suffer the most from high issue numbers tend to be the midlist titles.  People come and go to and from the big guns (Spider-Man, X-Men, etc.) all the time.  Characters like Hawkman, Firestorm, Luke Cage, She-Hulk, etc. tend to need a rest once in awhile.

 Marc Woolman wrote:
I hate the renumbering scheme, but Brevoort's response echoes what even JB has stated about other topics, such as unfaithful comic book-to-film adaptations, the only vote that counts, the only opinion that matters is the one made with your wallet.

The problem is that voting with your wallet isn't very nuanced.  It's not like they can tell the difference between someone buying a new #1 to try the book and an annoyed fan who is one relaunch away from ditching the book.  And that doesn't even get into creative, direction, etc.  And there's also the question of sales spikes vs. long term attrition.  People who get tired of the stunts and leave tend to be hidden by the spikes, or it's blamed on other factors. 

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Robert White
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Posted: 14 January 2014 at 6:59am | IP Logged | 4  

The problem with #1's working is that it's simply a temporary, short-term, fix. There is a bigger issue at work here that they don't want to address, mainly that the style of comic that they create only appeals to a very specific sect of an aging fan-base. A large part of this once thriving fan-base no longer buys new Marvel or DC comics and now focuses solely on classic material and a few comics from other publishers. 

There is little difference between this stuff and those horrible foil and hologram covers from the 90's. Implicit in this philosophy is the belief that they can't sell comics on the basis of their creative merits alone. 
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Sam Houston
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Posted: 14 January 2014 at 8:00am | IP Logged | 5  

Great feedback and information here!

From what I am reading via the comments (specifically new major plots/storylines as the bases for starting with a new #1 issue), perhaps Marvel is actually leaning more towards creating multitudes of "limited series" (limited in the venue of 20 or 30 issues, not like what I was introduced to with the 4-12 issue limited series back in the 80's) rather than long term titles. If so, then they should market them as such. For the long standing titles, Marvel should keep these and their higher numbering, but if they want to take certain characters on a different direction(s) then perhaps going the route of extended limited series (and calling them what they are) is best, though doing so without rehashing prior titles (such as the Amazing Spider-Man) should be avoided.

Edited by Sam Houston on 14 January 2014 at 8:01am
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Fred J Chamberlain
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Posted: 14 January 2014 at 9:29am | IP Logged | 6  

Brad: I mostly use new #1's of series' I've been
collecting as jumping OFF points.

> You want to end a series? Great. That means I stop
buying it. I'll go collect something else, thank you very
much.

I find myself with a single Marvel title on my most
recent preorder. One of the reasons is due to the vast
majority of the books not resonating with me. The other
is that the habitual drive of continuing to pick up title
is broken for with with #1's on books that I am on the
fence with. The fact that they use the new #1's as an
opportunity to bump the books from $2.99 to $3.99 only
add to the motivation to drop.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 14 January 2014 at 1:46pm | IP Logged | 7  

Looking back, a lot of creative team changes could have justified a renumbering. I can easily imagine a Fantastic Four # 1 or Captain America #1 illustrated byJohn Byrne, for example!

•••

I can't!! If we are going to apply significance to the numbering -- and, seriously, is there really a good reason to do so? -- a change in the creative team is among the worse reasons to renumber. When I started as writer/artist on FF, with 232, issue 300 hung before me as a goal, a target. I didn't get there, as it turned out -- for reasons I could not have imagined when I first put pencil to paper for 232 -- but it was fun thinking I might.

There is a strong negative psychology in renumbering. By putting so much emphasis on first issues, we automatically brand everything else as inferior. Especially given that we are targeting the speculators -- still!! -- and many retailers over-order "first issues" the cut orders for subsequent issues. The market is being arbitrarily, and artificially shrunk!

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Joe Smith
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Posted: 14 January 2014 at 3:28pm | IP Logged | 8  

Reboots are the new (insert what was new yesterday)

The owner at work told us yesterday he read that a new name on a bar
will increase sales 20% in one year. I understand I'm not paying the
bills, but, jeez....we just had our 20th anniversary party in April, and the
restaurant side will be 50!in June. We're a crack staff of restaurant
mercenaries who've been together for close to 15 years. While others
in town fold under pressure, we're still here. Why change?

When is enough not enough?

The reboots are annoying only if I allow them to be....I just want to read
comics. I don't 'collect' comics.

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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 14 January 2014 at 5:13pm | IP Logged | 9  

Just a gimmick as far as I'm concerned.

I haven't really kept up with US comics over last 15 years. But whenever I read some news sites, well how many 'first' issues of WOLVERINE have there been? Shouldn't his title be in way past 300 or something now?

I like the sense of history. My father was born in 1937. I have no idea if he ever read comics as he was never around, but using his birthdate as an example, how nice to think when I picked up, say, the 800th issue of Batman, that I was reading a title that my father *may* have read. Lots of history there. Not saying history equals quality. You could, potentially, have 700 or 800 issues of shit, but the history is there and most titles that last a long time, well they must have something going for them.

Again, I just think it's a gimmick. Imagine if, and I know it's different, Vince McMahon "rebooting" WrestleMania every year? This year, WrestleMania XXX will air: but imagine if Vince said, "I want more new fans, so let's call it WrestleMania Mark II, #1." Or something.




Edited by Robbie Parry on 14 January 2014 at 5:15pm
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Dale Lerette
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Posted: 15 January 2014 at 6:29am | IP Logged | 10  

I’m in the same boat Sam. I haven’t actually seriously collected comics since the early 90’s. I went for a period of time without them and then followed Byrne’s Spider Man reboot briefly. I think I also picked up a few Iron Man stories that Byrne wrote. After that I dropped off completely. Now I mostly read about what’s happening in comics via many internet resources. It’s been that way for me for well over a decade now.

 

The two reboots that I actually enjoyed were both from Byrne – the Super Man and Spider Man reboots. Besides that I have generally not enjoyed reboots.

 

I was really puzzled when I heard about The New 52. I thought it was cool that the characters from Wildstorm and Vertigo comics were being merged. But I remembered the confusion with Infinity Crisis and felt this would tend make things even more convoluted. I was never a big DC fan except for Byrne’s Super man and George Perez’ Teen Titans.  

 

I have to be honest and admit that I know very little about the Marvel NOW! relaunch. But I am guessing the same dangers could apply. Just a general loss of continuity. And it seems to me to be more about sales than anything else.



Edited by Dale Lerette on 15 January 2014 at 6:40am
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Greg McPhee
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Posted: 15 January 2014 at 8:21am | IP Logged | 11  

I always hoped that Action and Detective would reach issue 1000.

Even after COIE, I do not recall DC re-starting or re-numbering many titles. I could be wrong, but the only cancellation and then new series / renumbering I remember was Wonder Woman. I don't count Superman # 1 as this was a brand new series, and DC continued to produce the two preceding series (albeit one with a new title) under their old numbering.

All-Star Squadron may be another. Although that was replaced with a different titled series.
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Greg Woronchak
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Posted: 15 January 2014 at 8:29am | IP Logged | 12  

and many retailers over-order "first issues" the cut orders for subsequent issues

An excellent point. A 'new' number one generates a short-term boost, with subsequent issues fading fast (perfect for the quick-fix mentality at the Big Two, however).

Why not focus on creating an epic run on a given title, with easily accessible, entertaining stories that will attract readers because of the material, not an arbitrary thing as the issue number?
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