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David Allen Perrin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 April 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 3582
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| Posted: 22 January 2014 at 3:40pm | IP Logged | 1
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Thanks Robert!
I feel like I derailed this thread and my apologies for doing so.
I posted this question to JB directly on the forum. |
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Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
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| Posted: 22 January 2014 at 4:47pm | IP Logged | 2
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I liked that men like Richards, Grimm, Stark, Blake, Strange, and even
Banner had lived full lives before starting their careers. I also liked the
age diversity from teens (X-Men, Spider-Man), 20somethings
(Daredevil, Captain America), 30s (Banner, Stark), and pushing 40
(Strange, Richards).
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Anthony Dean Kotorac
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 September 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 832
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| Posted: 22 January 2014 at 8:15pm | IP Logged | 3
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What I do every year is read an entire run of Marvel comics starting in Jan This year all X-Men titles from the start Last year all Spider-Man issues from the start until now Year before that all Fantastic Four issues from the start until just after the Alan Davis issues in the mid 90s. I tore right through the first 102 issues of FF - Brilliant storytelling, could not get enough of it! I'm hoping the FF film reboot will bring a third Lee/Kirby omnibus along with it! Then the 70s issues came and I was really losing interest but then the JB issues came along and almost matched the level of quality of the initial run (but only slightly!). Could not get enough of those. Will hopefully be buying the two omnibus volumes this year Then quality dipped again though those issues weren't neccessarily 'bad'. The Simonson run was really interesting but then after I lost interest to the point where the Claremont run was the last straw. I stopped reading then, but I didn't own too many issues after that run anyway to be able to read. I have noticed that both the FF issues and the Spidey issues in the 70s simply lacked that special something. Were other Marvel titles in the same boat?
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Robert Bradley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4883
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| Posted: 22 January 2014 at 8:52pm | IP Logged | 4
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Anthony - Captain America had a pretty good run under Roy Thomas and Steve Englehart in the 70's, and the Avengers were pretty good under Englehart and Jim Shooter. Tom of Dracula was a good title, as were Captain Marvel and Strange Tales/Adam Warlock by Jim Starlin. I also enjoyed the Black Panther stories in Jungle Action. And the late 70's brought us the Claremont/Cockrum X-Men.
JB did some fine work on Iron Fist, the Avengers, the Champions, Marvel Team-Up, Fantastic Four and of course, Uncanny X-Men.
Unfortunately the uninspired stories did outnumber the inspired ones, but there are some good ones if you know where to look.
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Anthony Dean Kotorac
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 September 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 832
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| Posted: 22 January 2014 at 9:18pm | IP Logged | 5
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I keep forgetting that the Claremont/Cockrum X-Men issues were in the late 70s not the early 80s! Thanks for the info Robert - I'll have to check some of those out!
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133334
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| Posted: 22 January 2014 at 9:24pm | IP Logged | 6
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I liked that men like Richards, Grimm, Stark, Blake, Strange, and even Banner had lived full lives before starting their careers. I also liked the age diversity from teens (X-Men, Spider-Man), 20somethings (Daredevil, Captain America), 30s (Banner, Stark), and pushing 40 (Strange, Richards).••• Stan knew what he was about. There would be an authority figure -- Reed, Banner, Xavier -- but there'd also be kids, teens. If the teens were not the actual stars of the book, like Spider-Man or the X-Men. Significantly, tho, the villains were almost always older -- Doom, Octavius, Magneto, etc. A perfect mix for the "rebellious teenagers" Stan most likely saw as a large part of his audience.
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Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 15775
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| Posted: 22 January 2014 at 11:00pm | IP Logged | 7
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Speaking of Reed's O.S.S. days--
In an episode of THE FANTASTICAST that I recently listened to, in
which they discussed FF Annual #1, an interesting point was raised: In
a crisis, Reed is a natural leader, and will find a way to solve a problem.
He stopped the Atlantean invasion, after all.
His backstory may factor into his leadership skills--he was there for
WWII, and was involved with special operations against the Nazis.
Indeed, that experience may even have helped motivate him to build
his starship before the Commies (and the new threat they represented)
could beat us to the stars.
Without that backstory, writers have tended to turn Reed into the "Sorry,
Sue, but I didn't notice you because of SCIENCE" guy.
I have no interest in reading it, but I've read that Reed was pretty
ineffectual during CIVIL WAR, yes? That seems to be a fundamental
misunderstanding of the character. Is he long-winded? Yes. Is he a
genius who easily gets lost in his work? Sure. But he's also a leader
and a visionary.
Now, with the sliding scale of Marvel Time, it wouldn't be too hard to still
say that Reed was involved to a degree in any number of more recent
wars. That's what they've done with Ben and his piloting days, yes? But
this part of Reed's backstory has been excised, perhaps to the
character's detriment.
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Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 15775
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| Posted: 23 January 2014 at 2:52am | IP Logged | 8
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...so, I finished FF # 19, which introduced Rama-Tut. Of course, it
would eventually be revealed that Rama-Tut, Kang, Immortus, etc.
were all the same guy, and continuity headaches would ensue.
Doing a little research on where that whole thing currently stands, I just
read that Kang and The Gang are all actually...Nathaniel Richards,
Reed's father.
Um, what?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133334
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| Posted: 23 January 2014 at 4:18am | IP Logged | 9
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It all comes back to that one very odd moment when Doom and Rama Tut meet and themselves wonder if they are the same person. When I read that for the first time, all those years ago, it made no sense to me. I mean, sure, Doom might speculate about his future, but wouldn't Tut remember his own past?Of course, THAT had to become one of those Marvel Moments that got carved in stone!
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Greg Kirkman
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| Posted: 23 January 2014 at 10:08am | IP Logged | 10
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It all comes back to that one very odd moment when Doom and Rama
Tut meet and themselves wonder if they are the same person. When I
read that for the first time, all those years ago, it made no sense to me.
I mean, sure, Doom might speculate about his future, but wouldn't Tut
remember his own past?
++++++++++
Agreed. It's one thing for the FF to speculate on the possibility after
their first meeting with Tut (which they did), but that meeting with Doom
doesn't make sense.
And, as it now stands, Tut was Reed's own father? And Reed didn't
recognize him? I mean, if it had been Kang, with mask, then okay. But,
Tut's face is fully exposed.
Also, if Tut and Doom were the same guy, then Reed (and maybe Ben)
would certainly recognize Doom from his college days, assuming that
Doom's face had been restored to its original, pre-scarred appearance
(as it surely would have been, given his ego).
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Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 15775
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| Posted: 23 January 2014 at 11:06am | IP Logged | 11
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Okay. After a little more research, I see that Kang and The Gang are
not really Reed's father, Nathaniel Richards, but rather another guy,
also named Nathaniel Richards, who was born in the 30th Century.
Because, y'know, that's not confusing at all.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 23 January 2014 at 11:18am | IP Logged | 12
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And, as it now stands, Tut was Reed's own father? And Reed didn't recognize him? I mean, if it had been Kang, with mask, then okay. But, Tut's face is fully exposed.•• Of course, in my version of this, Reed's father was revealed as the "ancestor" to whom Pre-Tut had referred in his flashback origin. Perhaps the writers are confusing Tut with the character with a similar name played by Victor Buono on the old BATMAN TV series. He had memories problems. Maybe the Marvel Tut doesn't remember his own past, and that it was he, himself, who invented the time machine, not an "ancestor." Yeah, sure.
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Topic Closed)
