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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 01 January 2014 at 11:52am | IP Logged | 1
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if Ebay gets a piece, an auction house gets a piece, an agent or broker gets a piece...why deny the artist him/herself a piece of the profit from future re-sales?
Exactly. Heritage tacks on money to every transaction, to the point that your half-million-dollar Dark Knight page might set you back $600k when all is said and done. There's got to be enough money thrown around in these cases that you can spot Klaus Janson a steak dinner without cutting into anyone's profits.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133512
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| Posted: 01 January 2014 at 12:21pm | IP Logged | 2
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The $10,000 minimum kind of throws a monkey wrench into the works, at least if it means what I think it means. Very few pieces of art sell above that mark, so discounting prior sales and allowing nothing below this limit, seems like there are not a whole lot of artists who would benefit from this.
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12760
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| Posted: 01 January 2014 at 12:55pm | IP Logged | 3
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The $10,000 is a point of remaining debate, even though it was the ultimate recommendation of the US Copyright Office:
QUOTE:
| A resale royalty law should include a minimum price threshold that is sufficiently low to cover a wide range of sales, while not so low as to be offset by the administrative costs of collecting and distributing the royalty. The previously proposed EVAA legislation would apply to works sold for $10,000 or more. While there was some disagreement, most participants in the Office’s review process felt that an appropriate threshold should fall within the $1,000 to $5,000 range. |
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Joel Biske
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 January 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 761
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| Posted: 01 January 2014 at 2:57pm | IP Logged | 4
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That said, the whole thing still sounds like an un-doable logistical nightmare to me."
****
I think your last question is answerd in your previous paragraph - the percentage is included in the auction fees. This is what auction houses do. There will be a responsibility by both the artist and the auction house to be in communication, so I expect it may be a bumpy start at most. But I don't see it as undoable.
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It still seems to me that if the burden is on the auction houses, including ebay, then each of those houses would have to compile a list of artists, reps, or estates to be forwarding payments to.
The $10K minimum would certainly narrow that field quite a bit, and it would also exclude a LOT of comic work in general.
I also wonder about non US sales. Since we're not talking about a published representation, but the physical art.... is art done by non-US artists covered? What about non-US sales of the artwork? What if the sale is through a non-US auction house of art by a US artist?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133512
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| Posted: 01 January 2014 at 3:13pm | IP Logged | 5
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It still seems to me that if the burden is on the auction houses, including ebay, then each of those houses would have to compile a list of artists, reps, or estates to be forwarding payments to. ••• You make it sound like Bob Cratchitt is locked off in a corner somewhere with a quill pen and a ledger. Every time I buy something online or thru a catalog it seems I find mysel on yet another mailing list. Are you suggesting the various auction houses and galleries would not be able to compile equivalent lists? First time the work of a particular artist is sold, his info goes into the computer. Next time, it comes up automatically.
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Eric Ladd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 4505
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| Posted: 01 January 2014 at 4:16pm | IP Logged | 6
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Even if accounting for another coffer in the transaction is "difficult" it shouldn't stop us from doing the right thing. I think it should be simple, as noted by others. The number of artists we see not getting a penny from their artistic contributions is horrible.
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Anthony J Lombardi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9410
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| Posted: 01 January 2014 at 4:34pm | IP Logged | 7
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It still seems to me that if the burden is on the auction houses, including ebay, then each of those houses would have to compile a list of artists, reps, or estates to be forwarding payments to.~~~~~~~~ Those kind of place already have people and software in places to do just that. It's call Microsoft Excel and data entry personal. It might be time consuming but not difficult to do.
Edited by Anthony J Lombardi on 01 January 2014 at 4:34pm
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Brad Krawchuk
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 June 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 5819
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| Posted: 01 January 2014 at 4:37pm | IP Logged | 8
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How hard could it be to track someone down? If an artist is making works of art and selling them, they have to have a dealer or someone (if not themselves) to get the work out there. Most have easily found contact information, because they want to sell stuff and they need to have some line out to the world.
I mean, unless Bill Murray takes up painting or sculpture or something. That guy lost out on Who Framed Roger Rabbit because neither Robert Zemeckis or Steven Spielberg could get a hold of him. If Steven Spielberg can't find you in Hollywood, you're well and truly lost!
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Roy Johnson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 May 2013
Location: Canada
Posts: 1323
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| Posted: 01 January 2014 at 4:54pm | IP Logged | 9
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"Tracking artists down" isn't exactly something new; ASCAP has been doing it for years for songwriters.
That something might require some effort to set up is hardly a reason not to do it.
Also, with respect to the music of the Beatles, there are really two elements:
1) the abstract concept of "the song", and
2) the actual physical recording (or, "record")
This guy sums it up pretty well: LINK.
Edited by Roy Johnson on 01 January 2014 at 5:00pm
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Benny Hasa
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2011
Posts: 724
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| Posted: 02 January 2014 at 2:01pm | IP Logged | 10
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I'll keep this short, but sweet. I think this is a good thing moving foward. A lot of creators are having a hard time and getting a little extra money in their pockets is actually a great idea. I'm all for this.
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Brad Krawchuk
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 June 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 5819
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| Posted: 02 January 2014 at 5:57pm | IP Logged | 11
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The stupid and strange thing about people against this is, there are plenty of fans willing to just outright GIVE MONEY to people like Herb Trimpe, Stan Sakai's wife, and others when problems are made publicly known and someone sets up a PayPal or other account to donate.
So if I'm willing to spot 5 bucks for nothing... why not 5% or 3% of something I buy by that artist from a third party? Instead of having to rely on word of mouth and charity, the artist could (and this is a strange concept, I know) profit from the work they've done.
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Anthony Dean Kotorac
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 September 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 832
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| Posted: 02 January 2014 at 10:05pm | IP Logged | 12
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I don't have an issue with artists getting a percentage if I sold any of my artwork. One thing to consider though is how would it work on an international scale? if this became US law, would I be bound by such agreements being an Australian citizen? For the record I personally would honour any agreements I would enter into regarding art sales but how would this be enforced on an international scale?
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Topic Closed)
