| Author |
|
Ed Love
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 October 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2712
|
| Posted: 29 December 2013 at 10:16am | IP Logged | 1
|
|
|
Sounds like a bad idea to me. Because, it should then apply that to ALL products that can be sold and resold not just original pieces of fine art. Plus, in many cases, the company is considered the creator by law. I buy an original page of X-Men. I re-sale it. I would owe Marvel (who actually owns the intellectual property rights and paid for it to begin with and this is coming out of the COPYRIGHT office so make no mistake as to who really profits here) and NOT the original artist, the inker, the colorist if in color AND the writer who scripted said scene. Any money that goes to them would depend on their contract with the company. In the used book market, I trade a book to the book store I should owe all involved in creating the book or at least the publisher. Can you imagine if comic stores had to pay a royalty on every back-issue they sell? The bookstore then has to pay a cut to all for every used book they sell. If I resell my house, should I then have to pay a cut to the architect who designed it?
And, can you imagine having to handle wills and estates and inheritances? On top of death taxes, it's a short step to say that part of calculating the value of the inheritance will include paying royalties to the creators of the objects that are now the owner/executor of as they are changing hands and ownership.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
|
| |
Steve Gumm
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1460
|
| Posted: 29 December 2013 at 11:33am | IP Logged | 2
|
|
|
After reading the article, I have a hard time seeing any problem with this. They stated this would likely apply to public auctions (eBay,Heritage etc all have the means to set up these type of payments). When a Byrne/Austin X-Men page sells on an auction site for 20K why shouldn't 3% to 5% go to the artists? I think it'd be cool that each time Heritage has a big auction with 5 or 6 Byrne pieces he would get a nice royalty check.
Imagine how much Ditko would start making with his Spider-Man pages selling for 30k. Shouldn't the Kirby estate get a piece of the pie for all the FF pages selling for outrageous sums? I like the thought that Dave Cockrum's wife could start receiving some royalty checks to help her pay the bills.
To expand this concept a bit... I think that original comic book artists should be paid as a design consultant for each movie his costume designs and other concepts are used in.
Edited by Steve Gumm on 29 December 2013 at 11:52am
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132644
|
| Posted: 29 December 2013 at 11:52am | IP Logged | 3
|
|
|
the company is considered the creator by law. I buy an original page of X-Men. I re-sale it. I would owe Marvel
The physical artwork is deemed the property of the artist. Has so been for decades now. That is why artwork is returned to the artist.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132644
|
| Posted: 29 December 2013 at 11:54am | IP Logged | 4
|
|
|
I have a piece in front of me by Curt Swan and Murphy Anderson. Assuming I sell it, how do I get the cut to the artist? Curt is dead; Murphy is not someone I have an address for. Obviously, this is not legislation which could be applied retroactively. All those X-MEN pages of mine, for instance, which routinely sell for tens of thousands of dollars, would net me nothing. This law could be applied only to future transactions. With this in mind, a structure could be established to answer all your questions.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
|
| Posted: 29 December 2013 at 12:13pm | IP Logged | 5
|
|
|
I'm all for it. The original art market is big business now, and passing a law that gives the artist a cut of resale profits just seems like the right thing to do.
Individuals buying, selling, and trading art might find loopholes or engage in more private transactions to avoid paying artists, but this would at least make sure that sales through the major players like Heritage and Sotheby's would benefit the artists. Frank Miller, Todd McFarlane, JB, Jack Kirby's estate...I can think of a lot of people who'd have gotten some nice checks over the past few years just from the big auction house sales.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
| |
Steve Gumm
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1460
|
| Posted: 29 December 2013 at 12:15pm | IP Logged | 6
|
|
|
Here's the entire 124 page document:
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Steve Gumm
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1460
|
| Posted: 29 December 2013 at 12:23pm | IP Logged | 7
|
|
|
Skimming the document I found this:
"At least initially, apply only for a term of the life of the artist;"
This really bums me out. I believe the family should be able to reap the royalties from the artist's work after they passed.
Edited by Steve Gumm on 29 December 2013 at 12:24pm
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132644
|
| Posted: 29 December 2013 at 12:29pm | IP Logged | 8
|
|
|
This really bums me out. I believe the family should be able to reap the royalties from the artist's work after they passed. A satisfactory solution to this one continues to elude me. My instinctive response is no, there should not be a continuation of payments after the death of the artist. On the other hand, money will continue to be generated, so where should it go?
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132644
|
| Posted: 29 December 2013 at 12:32pm | IP Logged | 9
|
|
|
Frank Miller, Todd McFarlane, JB, Jack Kirby's estate...I can think of a lot of people who'd have gotten some nice checks over the past few years just from the big auction house sales. I feel a need, here, to emphasize that I do not think such legislation should be applied retroactively. Not even sure it could be, constitutionally. So, I really have no dog in this race. My old art will continue to sell for ridiculous amounts, and I will continue to get nothing from those sales.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Brian Peck
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1709
|
| Posted: 29 December 2013 at 12:33pm | IP Logged | 10
|
|
|
JB
The buyer takes the risk of holding onto it and the value may increase. The
artist could have done the same thing and not sold the art and wait to see if
the value increases. Terry Austin is a perfect example, he held onto most of
his X-Men artwork he did and that gamble has paid off. He took the risk.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132644
|
| Posted: 29 December 2013 at 12:38pm | IP Logged | 11
|
|
|
The buyer takes the risk of holding onto it and the value may increase. The artist could have done the same thing and not sold the art and wait to see if the value increases. Terry Austin is a perfect example, he held onto most of his X-Men artwork he did and that gamble has paid off. He took the risk. Terry did not sell his art because he likes to keep it, not because he saw it as an "investment". Your attitude is a big ol' FUCK YOU to artists everywhere. Nice.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Joel Biske
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 January 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 761
|
| Posted: 29 December 2013 at 12:59pm | IP Logged | 12
|
|
|
First... thanks to Matt for fixing the link....
The article itself is pretty vague.... all the thoughts and questions I had are now floating around here...
One of the things that I thought about is the different natures of the mediums talked about... musicians or songwriters mat get royalties on the albums, CDs, mp3's etc... and then again from subsequent printings of said, but not from say.... a resale from a used record shop. They get additional (potentially) from a reuse in a commercial or a video... but there is no tangible piece of art like there is with comics or illustration.
Even if they were to attempt to govern the resale of original art.... I can see how a Southeby's or Heritage or the like could but that into their agreement's, but what about ebay, or private sales... or trades. How do you actually make that work?
Sounds like someone said, "hey this is a great idea!" without actually thinking about the logistics.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
| |
Topic Closed)
