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Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
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| Posted: 30 December 2013 at 4:55pm | IP Logged | 1
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Unlike, say, a home or a car, doesn't an artist directly contribute to the
increased value of original art?
For example, if I bought a page from IRON FIST in the 70s, it would
increase in value possibly because John Byrne became JOHN BYRNE
with X-MEN. Considering I did nothing to make Byrne art hotter on the
market, why is it unreasonable for an artist to receive a percentage of
the sale?
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Richard Stevens
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1954
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| Posted: 30 December 2013 at 5:21pm | IP Logged | 2
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Some people don't buy a house because the property taxes for that particular building are too high. Property taxes keep the streets paved and the sewers working. I think once you're used to paved roads and covered sewers, you don't go back.
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Richard Stevens
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1954
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| Posted: 30 December 2013 at 5:28pm | IP Logged | 3
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More clearly, we are talking about a luxury item costing some small percentage more than it did before so that the person who created the luxury item has a better chance of eating and paying their rent. Administered fairly and without retcon, I don't see how this really hurts anyone.
No one *needs* expensive original art. Everyone *needs* food. An art market is best served by keeping artists around where they can generate more art. No idea how it would be fairly implemented, though.
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Anthony J Lombardi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9410
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| Posted: 30 December 2013 at 5:30pm | IP Logged | 4
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There is something about the original art that transcends mere collectibles or arts and crafts.
And is this directed at the fact I do arts and crafts? Because to Teddy Bear collectors they value that artist talent on the same level as you do comic book art. In fact a woman bought 2 bears in the same week for over 30,000.00 both were made by good friends of mine.
And if you go to this page you will see a mouse I made for Lisa, she loved my mice and asked me to contribute to a Disney piece.
Fans spend their hard earned money making an artist hot. I just believe when I sell an item, it belongs to that fan 100%.~~~~~~~~~~
Jodi I don't see what you do any different than what I do. Nor are you different than John Byrne of Salvador Dali.
I believe you should receive a royalty as well upon resale. Of course you are entitled to think otherwise. However let me as if this proposition was to be put into affect. Would you turn down a royalty check. If you were presented with one?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133274
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| Posted: 30 December 2013 at 5:31pm | IP Logged | 5
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No one *needs* expensive original art. Everyone *needs* food. An art market is best served by keeping artists around where they can generate more art. No idea how it would be fairly implemented, though. ••• Some kind of beurocracy would be need -- which means right away we're in trouble!
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Lars Sandmark
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 October 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 3144
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| Posted: 30 December 2013 at 5:32pm | IP Logged | 6
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@Anthony,
I want to be clear, I referred to art dealers, not art agents.
I agree that art agents should be paid for the work they do in order to get the work sold.
Dealers aren't providing a service really, they're just selling their stock at inflated prices for their own profit.
(kinda like flea market comicbook vendors, now that I think about it)
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6413
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| Posted: 30 December 2013 at 5:39pm | IP Logged | 7
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Jodi: Fans spend their hard earned money making an artist hot. I just believe when I sell an item, it belongs to that fan 100%.
**
This sounds fair and generous. But why does it stop you from entertaining the idea of getting royalties down the road? Would that somehow be bad?
That's the part I don't get here-- sure, royalties might be inconvenient and novel, but what makes it BAD?
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Richard Stevens
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1954
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| Posted: 30 December 2013 at 5:39pm | IP Logged | 8
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JB: Some kind of beurocracy would be need -- which means right away we're in trouble! | |
****
Can't argue that! It's a neat idea, though.
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Brian Peck
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1709
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| Posted: 30 December 2013 at 5:50pm | IP Logged | 9
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Lars,
I disagree. Art dealers do a lot of good. They track down artwork that may
not have ever been on the market. Yes ebay is an easy way to find artwork
for sale but most of the original comic art does not go thru ebay. I know a
number of oa dealers they are very nice guys, they spend a lot of time
tracking down artwork, or they are approached at shows to buy from
collectors or trade for art. Most of the art on the market would not be
available for your purchase without art dealers. Before ebay art dealers were
the best place to get artwork which had already been sold by the artist. I will
agree not all art dealers are good guys but then not all artist are either just
like any profession.
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 30 December 2013 at 6:01pm | IP Logged | 10
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The "house" analogy doesn't really work, nor does reselling a car. It's not really an apples to apples comparison, since you're comparing necessities to luxuries, and mass-market items to one-of-a-kind artworks. Going that route feels too much like the gun control arguments that always seem to get derailed by people talking about regulation of cars and butter knives.
Things have changed a lot since some of these pages first traded hands in the 1970s and 1980s. Marvel and DC weren't cornerstones of multi-billion dollar corporations then, everyone had a standard work-for-hire/page rate-only clause that didn't take collected editions or reprints into account, and no one could have anticipated that the original artwork that was dumped in a stockroom somewhere could someday command tens of thousands of dollars for the best pieces.
Since the corporations certainly aren't going to surrender ownership of any characters to the artists who created them, this is at least some small way to pay them back for drawing some of our favorite comics over the years.
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Anthony J Lombardi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9410
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| Posted: 30 December 2013 at 6:03pm | IP Logged | 11
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@Anthony,
I want to be clear, I referred to art dealers, not art agents.
I agree that art agents should be paid for the work they do in order to get the work sold.
Dealers aren't providing a service really, they're just selling their stock at inflated prices for their own profit.
(kinda like flea market comicbook vendors, now that I think about it)
~~~~~~ I get what you're saying Lars. But I don't begrudge anyone from trying to make a buck thou. Even if it's off of something I did. It's only fair thou if t hey do. Than kick some of that coin back my way.
I don't like it that people who are artists themselves would be against an artists getting royalties. I guess I can understand if they don't know what it's like to be in that situation themselves.
What I really don't understand is if someone that is an artist in any manner would be against it.
Just because things are they way now doesn't mean it has to always be that way.
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 30 December 2013 at 6:06pm | IP Logged | 12
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And reiterating what Brian said, many art dealers have been a godsend to comic book artists. One dealer/collector I know will routinely help out artists in need by cutting them checks for thousands of dollars and asking them to send along whatever they think is a fair amount of artwork for the amount of money he's sent them.
I know I'm repeating myself, but if this new structure were implemented, I'm sure the same amounts of money would be spent once everyone adjusted to the new system, it would just be distributed in such a way that would benefit the artists, too.
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