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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133274
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| Posted: 07 November 2013 at 6:50pm | IP Logged | 1
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I'm even more off the grid than I thought. I had no idea Ms Marvel was one of Marvel's most popular characters!
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Kip Lewis
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2011
Posts: 2880
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| Posted: 07 November 2013 at 7:14pm | IP Logged | 2
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They want her to be. She isn't.
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Emery Calame
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5773
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| Posted: 07 November 2013 at 10:48pm | IP Logged | 3
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"The 'S' is Kree for Sassy"
It's not an S. On Hala it stands for a disciplined adherence to the principles of intellectual compliance as laid down by the Supremor. Uh...hope. I meant hope. Yeah, that's it. Hope. You like hope right? Forget that other creepy dystopian authoritarian sounding thing I just said. We'll go with hope. Your primitive backwards human minds can probably grasp hope more easily.
Edited by Emery Calame on 07 November 2013 at 10:54pm
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 07 November 2013 at 11:35pm | IP Logged | 4
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Why shouldn't Marvel try to get some publicity for this--which is what a publisher and its creative teams would want for any of their books? The name Ms. Marvel isn't in use right now, and the former Ms. Marvel is using a name that's belonged to...I've lost track of how many characters at this point.
Recycling the name means that the people who helped the previous Ms. Marvel book reach 50 issues are more likely to give it a try than if they'd called the book Ms. Muslim, right? They're not retconning Carol Danvers as a teenage Muslim girl, they're not taking away the name she's currently using, so why's anyone bothered by this?
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Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2364
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| Posted: 08 November 2013 at 2:23am | IP Logged | 5
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I hate, hate, hate when they take a pre-existing name (and sometimes costume and powers) and give it to a new non-white character. Is that helping anything? Do non-white people only deserve borrowed identities? The only time this worked was when Levitz and Giffen created the new Invisible Kid as a black guy--but the original had been deceased for decades! That was the only one that did not seem forced. Are Muslims really happy that Muslim characters have been shoehorned into the Ms. Marvel or Green Lantern identities? It just smells of obvious pandering.
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 08 November 2013 at 2:39am | IP Logged | 6
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There are, what, 3600 Green Lanterns? Maybe more? How is adding one more Earth-bound GL cluttering things up or pandering?
And a Muslim writer wants to bring a little more diversity to the Marvel Universe by latching onto a character name that will get the book at least six more months' worth of sales than she would without it? No harm in that. If the book takes off, she'll get a supporting cast that might have some original character names, and maybe they'll get their own books someday. It's incredibly difficult to launch a completely new character in a book with a relatively unknown creative team and expect it to last a full year; Geoff Johns and the Justice League tie-in weren't enough to keep Vibe going.
It's not cynical for Marvel to assume that "Kamala Khan Adventures!" would sell about 14 copies and get canceled after two issues given the current Direct Market, it's practical.
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Glen Keith
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 July 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 851
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| Posted: 08 November 2013 at 5:03am | IP Logged | 7
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"I'm even more off the grid than I thought. I had no idea Ms Marvel was one of Marvel's most popular characters!"
=========================
In the last 10 years or so, Ms Marvel had become Marvel's answer to Power Girl, popular mainly for her sexy appearance. You can find lots of cosplayers and pin-up artist who have embraced the character for mainly that reason.
Funnily enough, Marvel seemed to think it was her character people liked, and have done a feminist refit, taking away her distinctive look and (ironically enough) feminist honorific. We'll see if her more modest look will have the rather short legs Power Girl's did over at DC.
Edited by Glen Keith on 08 November 2013 at 6:12am
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Glen Keith
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 July 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 851
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| Posted: 08 November 2013 at 5:21am | IP Logged | 8
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As far as a Muslim Ms Marvel, I don't have a problem with it, but it does seem silly. "Ms" is an appellation that seems to have largely fallen out of favor in recent years (when was the last time you had anyone under 40 insist that you address them as "Ms"?), and would seem even more out of place being used by a teen aged Muslim.
But what does feel offensive isn't so much that these multicultural reboots are bogarting another's name, but that they feel like they were created by comity. Mike Morales, Baz, and now this one, all read like a bunch of people sat around with a Benaton ad, circling the characteristics that they believe would make a character "relevant", and then shoehorning as many of those onto the character as possible, rather than trying to create one organically.
Edited to add: It would also seem to me that placing an emphasis on her religion might be a turn off, depending on how big a role it is to play. If the book comes across as preachy, either about Islam or the treatment of Muslims, it may just come across as a middle eastern version of Bible Man.
Edited by Glen Keith on 08 November 2013 at 5:33am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133274
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| Posted: 08 November 2013 at 5:57am | IP Logged | 9
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And a Muslim writer wants to bring a little more diversity to the Marvel Universe by latching onto a character name that will get the book at least six more months' worth of sales than she would without it? No harm in that.••• When I was doing ALPHA FLIGHT, not a week went by that I did not get mail -- some "instructional", some condescending, some hostile -- claiming that I was not "properly representing Canada" with the stories or the characters. That's CANADA, mark, a country whose most famous attribute, aside from snow, is politeness. Do you honestly imagine this character will be heartily embraced by Muslims everywhere? That all Muslims have the same idea of what "properly represents" their faith? And, of course, there's absolutely NO anti-Muslim sentiment in this country...
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Koroush Ghazi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 October 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1681
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| Posted: 08 November 2013 at 6:33am | IP Logged | 10
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I can tell you without hesitation that a strong female character who
doesn't wear a veil, and who is allowed to drive a car and talk to men
other than her husband will NOT be embraced by many people in the
Muslim world.
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Chuck Wells
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1244
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| Posted: 08 November 2013 at 7:18am | IP Logged | 11
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Mr. Farago's defense of Marvel introducing the new Ms. Marvel brings up another unfortunate aspect of newer versions of established characters. Yes, Carol Danvers may have ceded her claim on "Ms. Marvel" but the name is hardly sitting out there in the void waiting to be grabbed.
What about Sharon Ventura? She was Marvel's second hero to use the name Ms. Marvel. Later on she morphed into She-Thing and that's also very original; right?
So, three separate Ms. Marvel's now have to be clarified henceforth, and that gets annoying. There are also a couple of Marvel Girls, a few Spider-Women (and Girls), etc., etc.
Edited by Chuck Wells on 08 November 2013 at 7:25am
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Eric Jansen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 October 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 2364
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| Posted: 08 November 2013 at 7:40am | IP Logged | 12
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One of the very few good things about DC's New 52 across the board reboot is that it wiped from existence most of the 2nd and 3rd generation characters using borrowed names. Seriously, there were like 100 of them! And, yeah, there is no way in the world any teen girl (Muslim or otherwise) wants to be called "Ms." these days. If they were going to steal somebody else's identity for a teen, "Marvel Girl" would have made a lot more sense. And the only thing left from Dave Cockrum's wonderful costume design is the sort of lightning bolt.
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