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Gregory Friedman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 April 2013
Posts: 249
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| Posted: 07 November 2013 at 9:46am | IP Logged | 1
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Looks similar to Peter David's Supergirl #1:
Edited by Gregory Friedman on 07 November 2013 at 9:47am
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Monte Gruhlke
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Joined: 03 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3303
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| Posted: 07 November 2013 at 1:52pm | IP Logged | 2
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I have a problem with shifting names like this... why not just launch her under a fresh identity, actually promote the hell out of it and write powerful stories? This feels like a cheap ploy because it has been used so many times before by Marvel.
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Rick Shepherd
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Joined: 25 June 2012
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1095
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| Posted: 07 November 2013 at 2:03pm | IP Logged | 3
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Not that anyone's been screaming out for my opinion, but here it is anyway, blow-by-blow (with points split into + and - ):
+ New Marvel character inspired by the funny personal anecdotes of editor Sana Amanat, about growing up as an American Muslim? See, THAT's interesting, and sounds like a sincere attempt at this, not just 'white heterosexual male writer creates a walking stereotype for publicity stunt' that modern comics usually resort to.
- ...except the appointed writer is G. Willow Wilson, a convert to Islam. Maybe she's a good writer, and does a good job of taking the above and running with it. But from my experience (of personal friends who've 'converted' to ANYTHING - from born-again Christians and Muslims, to Americans who try to act like Londoners or white English Japanophiles, etc.), there's a fair chance of it being 'person from Culture A is a fan of Culture B, and thus drapes themselves in all sorts of stereotypical trappings to overcompensate'. So more lazy stereotyping, just of a different sort. Time will tell in this case...
- Speculation aside, the character is already going out under a whole load of press and publicity as 'NEW MUSLIM COMICBOOK CHARACTER!!' - in other words, it FEELS like a publicity stunt, and a really heavy-handed, patronising (in that 'white hetero male patriarchy' way) attempt at 'diversity'. Except, it's NOT diversity if people keep on pointing out a character's 'otherness' like that - sorry, but the day the battle of minority representation in the media is truly won is the day that writers can create characters of ANY gender, race, age, nationality, spirituality, etc., and NO-ONE MAKES A FUSS ABOUT IT. In fact, all this trumpeted 'diversity' just feels like the awful contradiction-in-terms 'positive discrimination' - how about the much better thing to aim for: actual EQUALITY - i.e, anything goes, and gets equal treatment. Maybe in real life, too, as unrealistic as that sounds.
- BIG pet peeve? Taking a potentially interesting character (ANY interesting character) that would work really well as a stand-alone character, ...and shoe-horning them into an existing character 'franchise', because it's all about BRANDING and the like these days (see also why the character Gravity got turned into a 9th-string part of the 'Avengers Initiative' franchise, rather than trying to push a new, interesting solo character who isn't just another part of some big, established Marvel brand-name). I mean, this character isn't even really related to the whole Ms. Marvel/Captain Marvel power set (and comparing Carol Danvers to Mar-Vell or even Monica Rambeau, it's fair to say that the 'Marvel family' is rather hard to pin a fixed theme to already, but SHAPESHIFTING? That's a stretch akin to making Kitty Pryde 'The Intangible Spider-Girl'...). But no - she's a 'Marvel', and thus also an 'Avenger' by association (because the Avengers are a BRAND, not a team), which means that she can get sold on the strength of established IPs - but as a result, Marvel isn't selling 'Kamala Khan' on her OWN strengths. Which actually feels rather cowardly when factoring the 'positive discrimination' marketing into the mix - "Look! Aren't we progressive for doing a Muslim-American character in our comics? But we're not totally convinced that will sell, so rather than having the courage to give a minority character the same support and push that someone like Jessica 'I only get so much inexplicable exposure because I'm Brian Bendis' pet fan-fic character' Jones has, we're making her an accessory to two existing Marvel Brands, and selling her on 'otherness', not on actual character strengths and interesting story potential".
Granted, this sort of thing happens at least once a year nowadays, but still... How long before Kamala gets lumped into some bottom-of-the-barrel team, neglected apart from the occasional background appearance, and then killed off for a cheap, crass moment in the next big 'event' crossover? Because 'diversity' is all well and good, folks, but can't waste printing time/money on little Muslim sidekicks while the Avengers, Wolverine and Spider-Man make a much bigger return with six titles apiece (and more importantly, mass-media on their side!)!
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Rick Shepherd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 June 2012
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1095
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| Posted: 07 November 2013 at 2:05pm | IP Logged | 4
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Monte Gruhlke: I have a problem with shifting names like this... why not just launch her under a fresh identity, actually promote the hell out of it and write powerful stories? This feels like a cheap ploy because it has been used so many times before by Marvel.
------------------------------------------------------
See, this is why I hate my brain - I spend half an hour tweaking and editing a massive tirade, and then someone else posts one succinct sentence that does a much better job of saying pretty much the exact same thing. Aaargh...
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Marc Foxx
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5580
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| Posted: 07 November 2013 at 3:44pm | IP Logged | 5
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I think we have to call her Ms. Marvel if we're nasty...
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Brennan Voboril
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Joined: 15 January 2011
Posts: 1739
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| Posted: 07 November 2013 at 3:45pm | IP Logged | 6
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What a mess comics is these days.
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Marc Foxx
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5580
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| Posted: 07 November 2013 at 3:52pm | IP Logged | 7
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Funny bit about it on The Colbert Report last night - wait for 1:15 or so in the clip, when the anchor pronounces "Marvel" like "Carvelle".
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Carmen Bernardo
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Joined: 08 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 3666
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| Posted: 07 November 2013 at 4:07pm | IP Logged | 8
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While I would appreciate the desire to give a positive view to the role of a minority character in comics rather than bring up another stereotype to the pile that has been done before, I fear that this has the words "publicity stunt" written all over it. I really can't trust a company that has to shout "Me too!" with moves like this, especially if they're shoving it peoples' faces to get some sort of reaction.
As was mentioned in the replies on the first page, Marvel already has a Muslim superhero character (Dust). We should also add the Arabian Knight from the 1980s (albeit, a big stereotype there), and possibly Jetstream of the Hellions (who came from Morocco). I'm sure there could be plenty of room for ways to use them for a positive role debunking all the stereotypes.
As for the comic itself, it looks like they're trying to put some effort into it. The caveat I have now is how long before those efforts come to naught, and the aforementioned sidelining and eventual knocking-off of the character comes. With our luck, little Ms Marvel will probably be written and drawn well enough early on to develop something of a fan base that'll be as enraged as I was when all the characters in New X-Men: Academy X got shoehorned into a pair of consecutive crossovers that ended the whole shebang for me.
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Kip Lewis
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2011
Posts: 2880
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| Posted: 07 November 2013 at 4:53pm | IP Logged | 9
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Monte Gruhlke: I have a problem with shifting names like this... why not
just launch her under a fresh identity, actually promote the hell out of it
and write powerful stories? This feels like a cheap ploy because it has
been used so many times before by Marvel.
---------
Probably because nothing unique that is truly new seems to be able to
make it long any more. When was the last time a truly new character
was introduced in a solo title that lasted more than a year?
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James Howell
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 23 September 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 363
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| Posted: 07 November 2013 at 5:13pm | IP Logged | 10
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The marketing bean-counters are now involved with Marvel "creative" A jaded, cynical ploy, propped up by an equally jaded and cynical Main Stream Media inc., to justify it. This new heroine, will go the way of Arana and others of their ilk soon enough. What has happened to this thing that I love (Marvel)? The magic? The excitement? The cartooning? The new CHARACTERS? Characters, not TOKENS.
Edited by James Howell on 07 November 2013 at 5:14pm
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Koroush Ghazi
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Joined: 25 October 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1681
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| Posted: 07 November 2013 at 5:28pm | IP Logged | 11
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If the character really is Muslim, I suppose she will have to stop during lengthy battles to perform one of the five prayers a day a Muslim needs to perform, kneeling towards Mecca. Will make for riveting comic-book action, I'm sure.
Setting aside my absolute revulsion of Islam, this shoehorning of "modern" concepts onto existing characters is a wonderful way of reinforcing my decision not to read any Marvel or DC comics past 1985.
Praise be to Allah that creators like John Byrne are still around ;)
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Rick Shepherd
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Joined: 25 June 2012
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1095
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| Posted: 07 November 2013 at 6:12pm | IP Logged | 12
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Koroush - funny you mention JB, because I'd just realised where we'd actually had a completely non-white team, including a gay Arab-American superhero, and there'd been no publicity-stunt announcement. Nope - just a good ol' "look at this cool new superhero comicbook, folks! Don't these guys seem really interesting?"
That's right - JB's 'TRIO'. And as I say, it wasn't marketed as "the most positively-diverse superhero team in comics", or "IDW introduces first gay Arab-American character" splashed across the news pages. Instead, the book came out, with interesting, three-dimensional characters, and used them in engrossing stories. And to top it all off, none of the characters were relying on the 'Next Men' brand or similar to sell them - the TRIO-verse was sold as a new, original project, with the interest coming purely from it's own merits. THAT's how you do it properly, and it's just so frustrating how rare said approach is actually attempted anymore.
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Topic Closed)
