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Jason Ayer
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 March 2008
Posts: 110
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| Posted: 04 November 2013 at 7:20am | IP Logged | 1
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I can remember attending HeroCon years ago and waiting in
line for Dave Cockrum to sign my copy of X-Men #94.
One person in line with me was astounded that I was
getting "that" issue signed because it would cause the
value to go down. Another person then corrected him, the
value would go up because the artist signed it. A low-
level argument began.
Finally, I told both of them I didn't care either way. I
was going to have one of my favorite artists sign one of
my favorite books to commemorate the moment in time that
I got to meet him. I didn't give two shits what it did to
the value, since it had too much personal value to me to
ever consider selling.
Neither one seemed to like that answer, but it did manage
to shut them up.
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Tim O Neill
Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 10937
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| Posted: 04 November 2013 at 9:32am | IP Logged | 2
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I've never tried to sell my collection - I've given away books and thrown away books, but I never saw them as an investment.
I think their will always be a market for classic issues. It's good to see prices reach some level of sanity. I didn't mind paying for original issues of JB's DOOMSDAY +1 earlier this year as it is not collected in trade paperback format. It was a fun read and I liked experiencing them in their original format.
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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16502
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| Posted: 04 November 2013 at 9:39am | IP Logged | 3
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Jason wrote:
... I told both of them I didn't care either way. I
was going to have one of my favorite artists sign one of
my favorite books to commemorate the moment in time that
I got to meet him. I didn't give two shits what it did to
the value, since it had too much personal value to me to
ever consider selling.... |
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The best reason, in my opinion!
Edited to add:
People have lost sight as to WHY comics (and anything that has become collectible) gained some sort of aftermarket value to begin with: Because, someone at sometime enjoyed or desired a particular comic book so much that they were willing to pay above the cover price to get the comic.
The first person to ever do this had no intention of doing so to resell it or hold onto it as investment. There was no market. It was done for a personal connection to the item.
Naturally, as is the way of the world, once enough of this was happening -- People paying substantial amounts of money to acquire comics they enjoyed or desired -- other people took notice and realized there was a business in it. And, honestly, such a thing isn't a bad thing entirely. It's just that such things get to a point where for too many people it's ONLY about the money. And when it is at a point that it's just about money, it becomes a hollow and soulless endeavor. If someone, somewhere, does not truly want the book for its own intrinsic value, things will fall apart as far as being a "collectible." For example, look at the Beanie Baby market, where demand was driven mostly by those seeking monetary gain.
My mantra as always been: Buy what you enjoy because you enjoy it. If it increases in value, then that is a bonus. If not, you still have something you enjoy.
Pretty much everyone likes to think they own something of value. That is natural. But too many people get caught up in chasing after money and losing sight of things to the point that it becomes just about trying to make money for its own sake.
A lot of early 1990s' speculators like to bellyache that they got "burnt" by the market. Nope, they did it to themselves by getting caught up in buying comics only or mostly for investment. Yes, the publishers did market the books as being "collectible." They will do whatever they can to sell their product, and the key to remember is that the publishers don't profit from the aftermarket sales. They will use whatever marketing tactic they can to get you to buy that comic when it first goes on sale. The comics buyer shouldn't think that there is a promise when they buy a comic book that it will increase in value.
Rather, the buyer should look at it like buying a paperback novel, or a CD, or DVD, Blu-Ray, etc. Once you buy those items you don't necessarily expect them to increase in value, and actually expect that if you do try to sell them used, you won't get as much as you paid to purchase the item to begin with. And if one of those other items does become highly sought after (such as a popular movie that goes out of print and sells for a high price on eBay or whatever), then that is viewed as more of an occasional fluke.
Edited by Matt Hawes on 04 November 2013 at 10:03am
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Eric Ladd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 August 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 4505
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| Posted: 04 November 2013 at 10:50am | IP Logged | 4
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A good friend of mine gives comics out for Halloween. If you have old books that are likely to get a poor bulk rate I strongly suggest you give them to kids on holidays. It is a great way for "old comics" to reach their intended audience.
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Jesus Garcia
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 April 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 2414
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| Posted: 04 November 2013 at 11:34am | IP Logged | 5
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Another thing I need to keep from my wife.
She thinks my 22,000-unit collection, which is currently stored at my Brother's might be worth somewhere in the low 5 figures.
A 1,200-unit collection selling for 500 is 41cents per comic. Great for new fans anyway.
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Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4620
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| Posted: 04 November 2013 at 12:28pm | IP Logged | 6
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I plan to keep my comics as long as I live, because at some point I might want to reread them. If I manage to live to age 75 or older, I expect my collection will be completely worthless when I pass away. My daughter (or hypothetical grandchildren) may want to keep some, and the rest will be donated, probably to a Goodwill-type store. In 25 or 30 years, the only comics that will still have "value" will be the rare issues that have appeal beyond the collector's market... the Action #1s and Detective #27s and such (and I certainly don't have any issues like that). The collector's market in 25 years will consist of really old guys, and the market will be flooded with their collections as they die off. Supply will grossly exceed demand. It's like today, the record collecting market is saturated with 78 RPM records from the 40s, because the old guys who collected them have all died, and there are no younger people who want them, so they've become worthless.
Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 04 November 2013 at 12:32pm
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Matt Hawes
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 16502
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| Posted: 04 November 2013 at 12:51pm | IP Logged | 7
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Honestly, Jesus, how much you get out of 22,000 comics depends on HOW you sell them. The fact is that most the people selling collections in bulk expect that they will get some percentage of a guide value for each issue. Others may think, "Surely, I can get an average of one dollar an issue?"
Well, no... Not in BULK.
People want to sell in bulk because it's quicker, usually easier, and way less work. Well, "bulk" is bulk no matter WHO you sell it to. This is because, say, a collection of 22,000 comics is going to have a variety of comics that the average collector will not need or want for his own collection. And even a collector (as opposed to a speculator/investor, or a dealer) will still want a pretty sizable discount to buy so many comics at one time. It's human nature: The more you buy, the more you will expect there to be some kind of price break.
Now, truth is that people who want to sell their collection of substantial size for as much money as possible, but also believe that selling on eBay, or somewhere other than to a comic dealer will get them more money are deluding themselves, Why is this? Because, as a rule, ONLY someone intending to resell the comics (speculator/investor and dealers) would buy such a large collection to begin with. Again, the average collector would not even want all the issues, so the price would have to be a steal to them to entice them, to pick it up. In other words, as I said above, "bulk" is bulk, no matter who you sell it to.
So, how do you make the most money out of your collection when you wish to sell it?: Work.
People selling collections usually hate to hear that. They want quick and easy money, and the most for the least amount of effort. Well, this is the real world, and that means to maximize your potential for getting the most out of selling your collection, you will have to roll up your sleeves and get dirty. You will have to sell individual comics, and all the work that entails. A lot of effort when selling 22,000 comics? Yep, it sure is. Nothing comes easy in this world. That's why dealers don't offer a mint for the average collection. They have to do a lot of work to get the maximum value out of what they sell. It tales time, effort, and money itself to make more money.
So, when selling your collection, you need to ask yourself:
1. Do I expect to get my money back?
2. Do I expect to get a percentage of what the guide says when I sell my collection as a lot?
3. Do I expect to get some money back on my comics, but realize that selling it as a lot means it could be pennies on the dollar, just so I can unload them without it being a total financial loss?
The first two expectations may lead to heartache and frustration. The last one is the most realistic.
A person's disappointment, if one has such a feeling, at accepting that #3 is the more realistic expectation comes because one failed to consider the reality of collecting.
Sturgeon's law states that "ninety percent of everything is crap," and while you presumably enjoyed most, if not all of the 22,000 comics you collected over the years, the truth is from a resell point of view, most of it is likely to be books that sell for cheap no matter how you sell it. Not every TV show is a Top 10 program, not every episode is a classic. And not every comic is valued equally, even when the guide value values them equally. A $20 valued "Amazing Spider-Man" will sell for a dealer much more quickly on average than a $20 issue of a Mickey Mouse comic.
So, this means there is really only a small amount of comics, percentage-wise, in any sizable collection that will appeal to prospective buyers that may fetch a substantial price. Most of it is cheap reading material, and so dealers are going to make their offer for such a collection accordingly.
Does this mean all those cheap comics are worthless? Only if the only value you place on your comics is of a monetary nature.
Again, how many DVDs' do you own? Or novels? Or something like that? You bought those items because of the entertainment value, correct? Just because the resell value is likely to be next-to-nothing, does this mean you now feel that you wasted your time on watching the movies, listening to the music, or reading those novels?
Why, then, is it that too many comics fans who supposedly bought comics because they loved the story or art, or both, now acting as if the books are totally worthless and should be destroyed because they can't make the tidy profit they led themselves to believe they were promised in some way for their purchase?
One more: Buy what you ENJOY, and if it increases in value, consider it a bonus.
And, if you do sell your collection one day, be realistic. If you want the most you can get out of selling the collection, you will have to put the most effort you can to ensure that. If you want your money qucik and easy, resign yourself to having to unload them at a relatively reduced value than what the price guides lead you to expect.
Price guides have always been the price you should expect to pay a dealer for aftermarket comics. The guide does not tell a collector what they can get from a dealer. This is because those prices you see in the guide come from a network of dealers who send price reports to the guide's editor, who then averages those prices and reports them in the guide. Such things like eBay has made it more likely that a collector can get guide value on specific comics, but the fact that the guide is more what you can expect to pay a dealer still stands.
And let me tell you as a comics retailer, even dealers are not guaranteed to get guide value for comics. Nobody is guaranteed anything. And that's another reason a dealer will not pay a substantial amount of money for a collection. A dealer has to expect that a large percentage of that collection will not sell at their retail price, and may one day have to be discounted, or clearanced, to make money from those comics. This is true of ANY product, by the way.
Dealers look to make their money back as quick as possible, and hopefully make a profit not too much later than that. So, that is a big reason why buying in bulk is the only smart move for a dealer. The only exceptions, really, are those occasional, truly popular comics that a dealer knows he can move quickly at a profit.
I have people come to sell me comics every week, and even though they can see that I have literally thousands of comics priced at one dollar apiece (many that are priced considerably higher in the price guide), they still expect me to shell out a buck a book for their comics. And many times the collections are in rough shape, or without bags and boards (which I and most retailers pay to have put on the comics), or the collections have been strip-mined of the few comics that may have truly sold at a decent price.
So, just to reiterate: If you want the most for your collection, be prepared to work.
And instead of destroying comics because you might be miffed that selling them, wouldn't make you a millionaire, or because you couldn't be bothered to give them to a fellow comics fan, please reconsider that line of thinking and donate the comics to some kids, or fan who you might know, or offer them free on Craigslist, or whatever. Throwing them away or destroying them is just senseless.
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Anthony J Lombardi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9410
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| Posted: 04 November 2013 at 2:23pm | IP Logged | 8
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I've sold a hand few of comics and got decent prices for them. But like Matt said I had to sell them one at a time. Sometimes I've traded with dealers. But mostly I gave away the bulk of my collection to kids. The comics were fun to read but would have been in 50 cent bins. So for me I found a bigger reward was to give them to kids so they could hopefully become comics fans.
I found creative ways of giving them away. I was working at a comic store at the time I convinced the owner to let me give them away at the store as a form of advertising for the store.
Another time at a neighborhood block party I grabbed all the little kids running wild and gave them little contest to do in order to win the comics. I even bribed them with comics to clean up afterwards.
Years later I've less than 30 comics left. I've begun collecting again. This time I'm being way more selective in what I buy.
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Neil Lindholm
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: China
Posts: 4944
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| Posted: 04 November 2013 at 2:27pm | IP Logged | 9
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Matt, what about us old timers who collect complete runs? I have a run of Uncle Scrooge from 1985 to present, as well as X-Men from 102 up to about 2003. Is it better to try to sell as a complete run or to split it up?
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Trevor Phillip
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 June 2012
Posts: 305
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| Posted: 04 November 2013 at 3:06pm | IP Logged | 10
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If I wanted a tax deduction it would be more beneficial to just sell them and claim a capital loss from the sale of a collectible
It will be more fun to have people pay me to burn them -- and comics are all about having fun, right? I bought them - I read them - now I'm trying to squeeze out some residual value from them in the most profitable way I can -- see I, like tens of thousands of others, held on to these things thinking they would be valuable one day.
so one day soon I'll have the platform together for you folks to pledge support for a mass burning. It's just in the planning stages right now.
(Oh -- I'm also binding some of them -- destroying their collector value but preserving their readability for me). it does make it hard when I have to include a $200 book in a binding, but...alas...
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 04 November 2013 at 5:37pm | IP Logged | 11
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I've had luck with selling off in-demand material through eBay every once in a while. You'll make your money back on stuff like selling off a complete run of John Byrne's Superman, or all of Jack Kirby's Kamandi, or a couple of years' worth of X-Men...but when you're selling off a bunch of Darkhawk comics, or 40 non-consecutive issues of ALF, or those two issues of something that Wizard told you to buy because it had the first appearance of some character that never really took off...
The comics I'd be able to sell most easily and for the most money are the ones that I wouldn't want to part with, which is probably the case for most of us.
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Shaun Barry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 December 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 6904
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| Posted: 04 November 2013 at 6:14pm | IP Logged | 12
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Trevor, I really hope you're joking, 'cause I just can't understand the thinking behind this.
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Topic Closed)
