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Trevor Phillip
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 June 2012
Posts: 305
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| Posted: 19 September 2013 at 2:16am | IP Logged | 1
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…the stories of Jesus were told as Jesus told his own -- by word of mouth…•• Bart Ehrman, who has written some of my favorite books on Christian lore and history, has indicated that he begins his class semesters by informing his students that there is not one word in the Bible that was actually written by Jesus. Many are surprised to learn this!
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I have a book called "The Five Gospels" -- it's a color coded printing of the 4 gospels and a 5th (almost complete) gospel by the apostle Thomas -- the color coding is voted on by the "Jesus Committee" made up of several high ranking priests/bishops and some biblical scholars. The verses are coded as to what Jesus actually said, might have said, probably didn't say, and did not say. It amazing how much "did not say" is in the book and how little "actually said" is there. Comparing the different gospels is also interesting. Worth a look for entertainment purposes.
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Carmen Bernardo
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 3666
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| Posted: 19 September 2013 at 4:15am | IP Logged | 2
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I generally don't take the Bible literally. Much of it is basically written down from oral history, much in the way that Homer's epics were over 800 years before. The Old Testament itself could be seen as what the Jews recalled of their own religious traditions and history, which would certainly be limited by the perspective of a collection of Semitic tribes dwelling in the midst of the empires whose armies, merchants, and dignitaries crossed the land they claimed as their own. They actually confused different kings of Babylon and Persia with one another!
The problem with fundamentalists of any religion to me is that they want to believe that the words in holy scriptures will quite literally come true. I haven't seen a ten-horned beast trampling about, though I could see how the minds of some believers could perceive the Antichrist in certain politicians or leaders today. The question then becomes "What're you going to do if that prophecy doesn't turn out the way you're expecting?"
There was a recent situation where something like that was developing. I recall there being some evangelical sect whose leader declared a certain date as being the day of Tribulation, then he backed into the shadows when the good Christians of his church didn't turn into vapor on the day.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133323
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| Posted: 19 September 2013 at 5:47am | IP Logged | 3
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I have a book called "The Five Gospels" -- it's a color coded printing of the 4 gospels and a 5th (almost complete) gospel by the apostle Thomas…•• Biblical scholars often refer to the "fifth Gospel", but they mean the one people carry around in their heads, built up of the "good parts" of the other four. This is most visible in various Nativity stories, where parts of the very different stories of the birth of Jesus are combined as if they are one. Nothing new. Old paintings routinely showed the shepherds and the wise men together at the manger, even tho they belong in different books, and the whole "born in a stable" part of the tale is not in Matthew at all!* ____________ * In that version Mary and Joseph live in a house in Bethlehem, where the wise men (not identified as three in number) find them. Meanwhile, Herod, informed of Jesus' birth by the wise (?) men, sends out his soldiers to kill all male offspring in Bethlehem "and the coasts thereof" born within the last TWO YEARS! Incidentally, here's a MAP. Find the "coasts" of Bethlehem.
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John Bodin
Byrne Robotics Member
Purveyor of Rare Items
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3911
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| Posted: 19 September 2013 at 7:30am | IP Logged | 4
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You've always been one of my favorite Biblical scholars, JB -- any chance we could have a new sub-forum titled "Bible Study With JB"?
;-)
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Joe Welsh
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Posts: 197
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| Posted: 20 September 2013 at 12:10am | IP Logged | 5
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I feel compelled to comment and I ask for a little grace as I am not as articulate as I think i am.
I have been visiting this forum for +7 years now and I realize my post count is low my read count is extremely high.
This forum for years has astonished me. Nowhere else have I participated in an internet forum as ( i don't know if this is the word I should use) tolerant of the diverse opinions I have seen here over the years. On many boards I have participated many of the posts that I have read here would be deleted immediately with no explanation. I am a staunch conservative Republican and although I don't agree with all their views (a woman's right to choose, to name one disagreement) I appreciate the fact that if I can post a semi articulate opinion and am respectable of those who may disagree with me, I wont be unilaterally deleted. I think the moderation of this forum is fantastic and I feel that even if i agree with something or someone disagree's with me that unless I go totally off the the reservation I am allowed to speak. (to me this is the greatest gift of our country).
The rules here are simple and understandable and I have always agreed with all of them.
Quite simply I can always exercise the same right I can with television, movies and the internet. If I don't like the show, movie or forum i can choose not to catch, go see or visit.
Everything else is a gift from our host and i appreciate the hospitality.
Sorry if rambled incoherently, but hopefully somebody understood me.
Joe Welsh
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133323
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| Posted: 20 September 2013 at 5:27am | IP Logged | 6
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The rules here are simple and understandable and I have always agreed with all of them. •• Thanks, Joe. Sadly, many of the complaints arise from those who don't like the fact that there are rules AT ALL. The rules we have in this Forum were not created arbitrarily. They have evolved over the years the Forum has been in existence, most often in response to a demonstrated need. (The insistence upon use of real names, for instance.) Sometimes I think it would be "fun" to "lower our shields" for a couple of days and let anyone and everyone who wants to post whatever they want to. We just KNOW the trolls would not be able to resist the bait, don't we? It might serve as an object lesson to those who think we're too strict around here!
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Fred J Chamberlain
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4036
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| Posted: 20 September 2013 at 5:46am | IP Logged | 7
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It would certainly be an interesting experiment.
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Shawn Kane
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 November 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 3239
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| Posted: 20 September 2013 at 7:29am | IP Logged | 8
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I appreciate the fact that if I can post a semi articulate opinion and am respectable of those who may disagree with me, I wont be unilaterally deleted. And you won't get profanity laced responses from those who disagree with you.
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15953
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| Posted: 20 September 2013 at 7:32am | IP Logged | 9
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Good post, Joe. I like it around here as well. The furniture's a little tatty and there aren't enough windows, but you meet some interesting people.
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Fred J Chamberlain
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4036
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| Posted: 20 September 2013 at 7:34am | IP Logged | 10
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Some quirky things that don't thrill me about the place.... But that is
pretty representative of most individuals, relationships, groups that one
interacts with, if you think about it.
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Joe Welsh
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Posts: 197
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| Posted: 21 September 2013 at 1:48am | IP Logged | 11
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(The insistence upon use of real names, for instance.)
I am reminded and live by the same tenet that was demonstrated in a West Wing episode in the second or third season, If I write it, i sign it with my name. If you have to hide behind an alias to post an opinion you lose all credibility.
Joe Welsh
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Carmen Bernardo
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 3666
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| Posted: 21 September 2013 at 4:29am | IP Logged | 12
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It works that way for professional job-seeking purposes, too. You might never give potential employers a positive impression of yourself if the email address you provide says something like "cartoonboyz666". The HR people reading that might think you were some sort of geek who wouldn't take their job responsibilities seriously.
Unfortunately, the Internet makes it easy for people to assume their masked identities and therefore give themselves up to their impulses.
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