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Bill Sandefur
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 August 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 118
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| Posted: 06 September 2013 at 8:42am | IP Logged | 1
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Not to kiss ass or anything, but one of my personal favorite costume re-designs ever was JB's brown Wolverine update. I've never been a big fan of changing a character's classic costume, but in the case of Wolverine I thought it worked brilliantly. It made so much more sense for a guy called "Wolverine" to wear more muted, earthy colors (instead of looking like the U of Mich. mascot). The design was also brilliant in that it totally changed the tone of the character's look, but at the same time kept his original silhouette so that he remained instantly recognizable as Wolverine. It's still my favorite look for the character. Too bad they changed it. 
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Robert Bradley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4878
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| Posted: 06 September 2013 at 9:12am | IP Logged | 2
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Bill -
Marvel has had other instances of characters getting redesigned into more iconic costumes - Daredevil, Iron Man, Captain Mar-Vell, Black Widow and Doctor Strange all come to mind.
Unfortunately we've also encountered efforts to change classics like Captain America, Thor, Spider-Man, Inhumans, Dracula, Luke Cage that haven't worked as well, IMO.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133266
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| Posted: 06 September 2013 at 10:56am | IP Logged | 3
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Too bad they changed it.•• The danger in changing any character's costume is that those who follow will almost certainly view the change as opening the floodgates. In many cases an artist newly assigned to a title will assume that to be a mandate to change characters costumes. It's been a long, downhill tumble since the days when the EiC invoked the "always get permission" rule to force me off AVENGERS WEST COAST after I changed the Scarlet Witch's costume for a single story arc but didn't "get permission" (except from the editor!) to do so. Particularly ironic, since that same EiC went on to write FANTASTIC FOUR, and brought back the Malice character (another intended as a one-story-wonder), who was wearing a changed costume for which I also had not "gotten permission" (except from the editor!).
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 06 September 2013 at 10:59am | IP Logged | 4
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Unfortunately we've also encountered efforts to change classics like Captain America, Thor, Spider-Man, Inhumans, Dracula, Luke Cage that haven't worked as well, IMO.•• "Classic" is a dirty word in comics these days. It's used as a pejorative, like "old school" and "retro" (unless the work is being done by some canonized writer or artist). My favorite Stupid Sound Byte of all time, of course, was when the makers of the Captain America movie changed his classic uniform, declaring they wanted him wearing something that "looked like it was designed in the Forties". (Well, okay -- they sneak by on a technicality, there. Given the publication date of CAPTAIN AMERICA 1, the character was probably designed in 1939. . . )
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Vinny Valenti
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8113
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| Posted: 06 September 2013 at 11:00am | IP Logged | 5
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Cockrum's Thunderbird was one of the best costume designs I ever saw. It was equal parts Native Amercian garb and super-hero costume. Too bad he didn't last longer!
Edited by Vinny Valenti on 06 September 2013 at 11:36am
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Vinny Valenti
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8113
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| Posted: 06 September 2013 at 11:38am | IP Logged | 6
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And speaking of Gil Kane, he also designed Iron Fist's costume, which is also one of the greats. Christopher Priest mistakenly credited JB for creating the character, but that doesn't surprise me too much - since it does look very much like a John Byrne costume.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 06 September 2013 at 11:50am | IP Logged | 7
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And speaking of Gil Kane, he also designed Iron Fist's costume, which is also one of the greats. Christopher Priest mistakenly credited JB for creating the character, but that doesn't surprise me too much - since it does look very much like a John Byrne costume.•• Which makes it even odder that it took so long for me to figure out how to draw it! Look thru my issues, and notice how long it took for me to get the collar right. I guess I kept thinking "Deadman".
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Robert Bradley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4878
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| Posted: 06 September 2013 at 12:19pm | IP Logged | 8
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John Romita Sr. was really prolific when he was Amazing Spider-Man artist/Art Director -
- Black Widow - Brother Voodoo - Bullseye - Captain Marvel II (Monica Rambeau) - Falcon (I believe Romita did only the red & white revamp) - Firestar - Kingpin - Luke Cage - Man-Wolf - Mantis - Morbius - Ms. Marvel (derivative from Captain Mar-Vell) - Nomad - Omega the Unknown - Prowler - Punisher - Red Guardian II (derivative from the original Red Guardian) - Rhino - Satana - Schemer - Shocker - Sub-Mariner (his black & yellow full body costume) - Tarantula - Wolverine
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Robert Bradley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 4878
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| Posted: 06 September 2013 at 12:39pm | IP Logged | 9
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And then of course there's Jack Kirby -
- Absorbing Man - Annihilus - Ant-Man - Ares - Asgardians (Balder, Sif, Odin, etc.) - Baron Strucker - Baron Zemo - Batroc the Leaper - Black Panther - Blastaar - Blob - Doctor Doom - Dragon Man - Enchantress - Eternals - Executioner - Fantastic Four - Fin Fang Foom - Fixer - Galactus - Grey Gargoyle - Hate Monger - Hercules - High Evolutionary - Him - Hulk - Human Top - Impossible Man - Inhumans (Royal Family) - Iron Man (original gray armor) - Kang - Kree - Loki - Machine Man - Mad Thinker - Magneto - Man-Beast - Mastermind - Mentallo - MODOK - Mole Man - Molecule Man - Nick Fury - Paste Pot Pete/Trapster - Pupper Master - Quicksilver - Radioactive Man - Rawhide Kid - Red Ghost - Ronan the Accuser - Scarlet Witch - Silver Surfer - Skrulls - Space Phantom - Super-Skrull - Surtur - Thor - Toad - Two-Gun Kid - Ulik - Vanisher - Watcher - Wizard - Wrecker - X-Men
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Ronald Joseph
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 April 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 1784
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| Posted: 06 September 2013 at 1:07pm | IP Logged | 10
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he also designed Iron Fist's costume
Iron Fist's original costume is one of my very favorite designs.
And it kills me that someone, somewhere, decided that they'd not only give him a new look (which is just a very, very boring rendition of the original design), but cover up his dragon chest tattoo with an emblem of the same dragon!
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133266
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| Posted: 06 September 2013 at 1:46pm | IP Logged | 11
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I imagine there was someone, somewhere, saying "Sh'yeah, he has a burn scar on his chest from a wound on a dragon that just HAPPENED to be in the shape of a dragon. Like THAT'S realistic!"
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Ronald Joseph
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 April 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 1784
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| Posted: 06 September 2013 at 2:04pm | IP Logged | 12
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he also designed Iron Fist's costume
Iron Fist's original costume is one of my very favorite designs.
Like THAT'S realistic!
Now that we've invoked the name of the mighty Iron Fist, allow me to complain about another redesign that I absolutely hate.
Luke cage, Power Man.
I really loved Power Man with his afro, steel headband, silk shirt, and chain belt!
This "bald with a goatee" guy seems like an imposter.
Does anyone else on the forum think his old look was better? Do any of you read books with him now and make the connection to that classic character?
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Topic Closed)
