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Brennan Voboril
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 January 2011
Posts: 1834
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| Posted: 10 September 2013 at 2:34pm | IP Logged | 1
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Craig I also feel it would be very solid grounds for impeachment and believe we would see a move to do just that from a bipartisan coalition if Obama goes ahead. I also think Obama knows that and hope he sends Putin a dozen roses.
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Thom Price
Byrne Robotics Member
L’Homme Diabolique
Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7592
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| Posted: 10 September 2013 at 2:47pm | IP Logged | 2
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His stance motivated Russia to find a solution, how much better can it get?
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How about being the one working towards a diplomatic, peaceful solution? The one thing I was actually optimistic about Obama was that I thought for sure he would bring a new approach to how we present ourselves on the world stage; I mean the guy won a Nobel Prize, right? But nope, same old same old. "We're the mighty US! Do what we say or we'll drop bombs on you!" John Wayne would be proud. Even if this was just a bluff to force the situation, it just reinforces the perception that American offers nothing but violence and aggression.
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Wilson Mui
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4587
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| Posted: 10 September 2013 at 3:08pm | IP Logged | 3
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Thom, Obama did not ask for the Nobel Prize or even believes he deserved it. What else do you think the President should have tried before threatening Assad? The US had given Syria multiple warnings both in public and in private about using chemical weapons on its people.
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Michael Roberts
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 14912
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| Posted: 10 September 2013 at 3:42pm | IP Logged | 4
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What I find really bizarre lately is the praise for Putin I've seen from American conservatives on various websites, over things like Syria, Edward Snowden, and Russia's anti-gay policies. What the fuck?!? Praising the former KGB guy? The enemy of your enemy is not always your friend. Someone whose interests happen to line up with yours for entirely different reasons (some of which may be antithetical to your values) is not deserving of praise.
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Jodi Moisan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 6808
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| Posted: 10 September 2013 at 4:12pm | IP Logged | 5
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My thoughts exactly Michael, they hate Obama more, because every night on the TV or hate radio they are told to.
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Thom Price
Byrne Robotics Member
L’Homme Diabolique
Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7592
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| Posted: 10 September 2013 at 5:09pm | IP Logged | 6
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What else do you think the President should have tried before threatening Assad? The US had given Syria multiple warnings both in public and in private about using chemical weapons on its people.
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How many times do I have to say it? Let the U.N handle it. America is not the world's police. Obama was elected President of the U.S., not the world, and not Syria. Until Syria posed a direct, immediate threat to our country, there was no reason for him to be involved.
Edited by Thom Price on 10 September 2013 at 5:39pm
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Ed Aycock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1004
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| Posted: 10 September 2013 at 5:14pm | IP Logged | 7
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The U.N. has proven to be a largely ineffective body of nothing with an architectural mistake on the East River.
Do I want a strike in Syria? Hell no. But all this call for impeachment? Give me a f&%$ing break.
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Wilson Mui
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4587
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| Posted: 10 September 2013 at 5:55pm | IP Logged | 8
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Until Syria posed a direct, immediate threat to our country, there was no reason for him to be involved.
=== Do you think protecting our allies like Israel is in our national interest? Syria might decide to use chemical weapons on Israel. Also, if the international community does not show outrage over the use of such weapons, a country might one day use it against US troops. Wouldn't it make sense to act now instead of waiting until something even worse happens. With regard to your comment about the UN, the US is the one that usually does most of the fighting and providing resources in combat. Furthermore, because of Russia's veto power, we can not use the UN in this case.
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Craig Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 28 November 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 1756
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| Posted: 10 September 2013 at 7:23pm | IP Logged | 9
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Well that was enlightening. Have the NeoCons bodysnatched PBO?
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Steve De Young
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 3532
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| Posted: 10 September 2013 at 7:55pm | IP Logged | 10
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Jodi, a lot of us who have problems with Obama aren't right wing haters. A lot of us are actual left-wingers who had high hopes that Obama would change things in this country, and change this country's foreign policy. We're horribly disappointed. I have seen absolutely nothing in Obama's foreign (or domestic, for that matter) policy which is even the slightest bit different than W.'s approach to the same issues. The only President who he's closer to in policy than W. is probably Reagan. The actual Reagan, not Saint Reagan who the right worships.
Obama has doubled down on surveillance, on detention, on drone strikes, on carrying Saudi Arabia's water overseas... On the domestic front, his great accomplishment, Obamacare, was a Republican plan before they all decided they hated it because his name was attached, is a half-assed compromise with the insurance companies. Many of us were hoping he'd finally push for the U.S. to have a single payer system...y'know...like every other industrialized country in the world.
Its really our own fault, though, for actually believing the hype surrounding Obama's first election. If we'd scratched the surface, we would've seen he's a wholly owned subsidiary of the same companies that owned Bush.
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Steve De Young
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 April 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 3532
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| Posted: 10 September 2013 at 8:04pm | IP Logged | 11
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Additionally, people need to get over this 'America is the good guy, Russia and Syria are the bad guys' nonsense. I know we read comics around these parts, but in the real world, there aren't 'good guys' and 'bad guys', at least not when it comes to world leaders. Assad is a British educated family man. He's an ophthalmologist. He's a huge fan of Phil Collins. When he came to power in Syria, they called it the 'Syrian Spring' (sound familiar?) because of the unprecedented freedoms he granted after his father's regime. If he's guilty of anything, its of not being strong enough to control his own military commanders (much like Hosni Mubarak). When the U.S. invaded Iraq and turned it over to warlords, hundreds of thousands of refugees poured into and took asylum in Syria from all kinds of religious minorities.
As someone else pointed out, for the last few years, he's been fighting literally for his life, and the lives of his family and his country, against foreign Jihadist militant groups that have invaded his country. Every area that has been taken over by the rebels has been savaged. Historical and religious sites have been pillaged and burned. Two Christian bishops have been held hostage for months now by the rebels. Several clergy have been publically beheaded in their territory. In the last week, they took over the city of Maaloula, a Christian city, containing a large orphanage run by nuns, who had to evacuate and hide the children in caves to keep them away from the rioting jihadists after the city was taken.
The idea that any country would get involved in Syria in any way other than helping put down the Al Qaeda aligned terrorists attempting to destroy that country is simply absurd. Are we really going to commemorate the 12th anniversary of 9/11 by assisting the savages who attacked us?
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Jodi Moisan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 6808
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| Posted: 10 September 2013 at 8:35pm | IP Logged | 12
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Steve you seem very passionate and props for that. I don't see things as you do and that doesn't mean you are right and I am wrong or the other way around. I do not agree at all with your opinion of Obama and I do not agree with your proof to support your opinion.
I have lived most likely a few years more than you, but as Presidents go I am very proud of Obama. I was proud of Clinton, but he too at the time, was so maligned to a lesser degree than Obama, he actually did get an impeachment vote. But now history has proved he was a hell of a great president. I think history will judge Obama the same way.
People throw impeachment around as if it is a slap on the wrist, that it will only make Obama look bad. It just makes all of us look like idiots and so fractured as a country, we look weak. Bush and Cheney gave the Dems way more than enough to start hearings on war crimes and other offenses but the dems didn't because it would not help this country move forward. If we don't pull our heads out of asses and come together to solve problems, instead of the continued pissing match, we are honestly doomed.
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