| Author |
|
Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
|
| Posted: 28 July 2013 at 4:40pm | IP Logged | 1
|
|
|
I remember buying the GREATEST SUPERMAN STORIES EVER TOLD 25 years ago. My favorite stories were DEATH OF SUPERMAN and SUPERMAN: RED AND BLUE. Both were "imaginary" stories. They still *counted* to me.
A good friend of mine falls into the "it doesn't count!" camp. It really is two different points of view from almost two different worlds.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
|
| |
Ronald Joseph
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 April 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 1784
|
| Posted: 28 July 2013 at 6:28pm | IP Logged | 2
|
|
|
Must the Green Goblin ONLY fight Spider-Man? Why not take on Daredevil or Moon Knight?
I agree with you on this.
Unless it's a very specific revenge plot against a specific hero (or heroes), there's no reason why any random hero might stumble across any random villain at any given time.
In recent years, Norman Osborn has pretty much moved on from just a Spider-Man villain and become THE villain in the MU? He seems to have been all over the place; Siege, Dark Avengers, etc.
There are so many first time match-ups waiting to happen that I don't think we'll ever be able to see...
Acts of Vengeance was a pretty good way of shaking things up, but it was an event and I don't quite remember if the "first time I'm facing this guy" took hold after it ended.
My favorite match-ups from that storyline were WCA vs. The U-Foes and Quasar vs. The Absorbing Man.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
| |
Stephen Churay
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 8369
|
| Posted: 29 July 2013 at 4:30am | IP Logged | 3
|
|
|
Problem is, as fans we want all (or at least most) of the stories we've
ever read to "count".
---
I have to admit that I have been guilty of this. Even when I was a kid I
hated the idea that CRISIS made countless other stories "not count",
even worse that it did so only partially.
---
Why would those stories no longer count?
---
Because they no longer "happened". I'm not really defending that
attitude, it's just a personal reaction that I hadn't been able to shake.
=======
See, the publishers have taken this idea and bastardized it. This is
why we seem to get so many event stories in which someone has to
die.
I like your idea JB. But, for it to work, they'd have to tell more than two
stories a year. If each story lasts six issues, the one year reference
rule gets tossed out the window. There would have to be more single
issue and two part stories.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Carmen Bernardo
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 August 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 3666
|
| Posted: 29 July 2013 at 4:34am | IP Logged | 4
|
|
|
Stephen Robinson wrote:
| ...there's no reason why any random hero might stumble across any random villain at any given time. |
|
|
Especially concerning the fact that about 90% of the Marvel superheroes were based in and around New York City. The closest thing we usually got to this was in issues of Marvel Team-Up and Marvel Two-In-One, where you might have either Spider-Man or the Thing encountering another hero's arch-enemy in one form or another. At least the closing arc in X-Men: The Hidden Years gave us a bit of a teaser with Kraven the Hunter taking on that group.
The problem that I have with Norman Osborn becoming the arch-villain in the Marvel universe at this point is that it smacks too much of making him into Lex Luthor, rather than the troubled father of Harry Osborn whose experiments in biochemistry triggered a bizzare split personality in him that became the Green Goblin. He works better in my view as a more street-level villain against whom you could pitch Daredevil, Power-Man, and Captain America. As GG, Osborn just seems too self-centered to concern himself with cosmic agendas in the way that Doctor Doom does.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 15775
|
| Posted: 29 July 2013 at 9:23am | IP Logged | 5
|
|
|
triggered a bizzare split personality in him that became the Green
Goblin
++++++++++
This is a very common misconception, which was largely fueled by the
90s cartoon and the movies.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
Erin Anna Leach
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 February 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 746
|
| Posted: 29 July 2013 at 9:30am | IP Logged | 6
|
|
|
I agree with John on this one, with the exception of no footnotes. However, I feel that footnote use should have some strict rules. Say there is a two issue story arch in Spider-man. In the first issue of the story arch Doc Ock gets the better of Spidey. Then they meet up again in the next issue and Doc Ock gloats about his victory in the last issue. I think then a footnote that says read last issue is ok. It might promte someone who missed last issue to seek it out. That is ok and even healthy for the industry and comic book shops. Other than that, footnotes have become a very bad thing in super hero comics.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Jesus Garcia
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 April 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 2414
|
| Posted: 29 July 2013 at 9:37am | IP Logged | 7
|
|
|
In the early Marvel days, particularly on Spider-Man, events proceeded almost in real time. Peter graduated high school within the Lee & Ditko run.
But then, the success of Spider-Man caused the PTBs to almost suspend time flow.
I suppose, again in the early days, Stan and Jack and Steve didn't have a plan beyond surviving the next 6 months so that they could produce their best work unfettered by concerns of making the properties last.
Had they adopted the same flow of time as in comic strips, say, and used this as a foundation from the start the whole continuity thing might never have instigated the continuity anal retentive syndrome.
I'm a continuity adherent myself but I apply this to respecting a character's milestones such as being adopted or being bitten by a radioactive bat or being the only survivor of a doomed planet.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133324
|
| Posted: 29 July 2013 at 9:42am | IP Logged | 8
|
|
|
…I feel that footnote use should have some strict rules. Say there is a two issue story arch in Spider-man. In the first issue of the story arch Doc Ock gets the better of Spidey. Then they meet up again in the next issue and Doc Ock gloats about his victory in the last issue. I think then a footnote that says read last issue is ok. It might promte someone who missed last issue to seek it out.•• Shouldn't the STORY do that?
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Robbie Parry
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 12186
|
| Posted: 29 July 2013 at 9:51am | IP Logged | 9
|
|
|
The FF vs the Juggernaut suggestion that Robbie mentioned sounds cool to me! Or Daredevil vs the Abomination for another.
***
Thanks. I also agree with Ronald Joseph's views.
I can't know of every encounter that has taken place, but when I search for match-ups via Bing images, well I'm pretty sure FF vs. Juggernaut hasn't taken place.
I think there are so many cool ones. I'd love to see the X-Men taking on The Sinister Six; I'd love to see Hawkeye and his arrows against Bullseye; Namor battling Scorpion would be fun; I'd really like to see Superman take on Reverse-Flash; and The Teen Titans taking on Doctor Sivana would be fun.
Well, those are just my personal choices, but I really do think there is scope for many never-before-seen or rarely seen battles. If DC announced we'd be seeing a self-contained Superman VS Reverse-Flash storyline tomorrow, I'd queue up for it; if, however, they announced a 13-issue "This Is The Absolute Final Crisis" I'd sigh and walk away.
From a storyline perspective, it makes sense for cross-pollination of villains. No elaborate storylines needed. Namor can fly, right? How about he's flying at the same time as Electro and Scorpion are robbing a bank? Or we could have The Avengers and Fantastic Four unavailable, so Spider-Man and Daredevil have to handle Baron Zemo or something from the Negative Zone? Or how about Clark Kent on a journalistic assignment in Gotham City where The Riddler kidnaps Lois Lane?
But no, seems we have to have another "archaeological event".
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12715
|
| Posted: 29 July 2013 at 9:58am | IP Logged | 10
|
|
|
Why would those stories no longer count?
+++
Because they no longer "happened".
****
I think that, when there were predominantly kid-readers, to make the stories those kids were introduced to suddenly imaginary by dint of some event/stunt would be a genuine betrayal. I'm speaking in general because whatever Crisis was (I only have a vague idea) came about years after I was a comicbook reader. But, again in general, beyond 13 years old or so, any reader should be able to let go and say whatever happens here on out doesn't have to happen for me, doesn't have to matter for me, doesn't have to gibe with anything (and certainly not everything!) that had happened for and that once did matter to me... as a kid.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133324
|
| Posted: 29 July 2013 at 10:24am | IP Logged | 11
|
|
|
Why would those stories no longer count?+++ Because they no longer "happened". **** I think that, when there were predominantly kid-readers, to make the stories those kids were introduced to suddenly imaginary by dint of some event/stunt would be a genuine betrayal. •• Perhaps it would be healthier for the industry if readers were encouraged to remember that NONE of the stories "happened". That all of them are the inventions of the imaginations of a series of writers -- NOT working in collaboration, spread over many years, even decades.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Jack Michaels
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 June 2013
Posts: 422
|
| Posted: 29 July 2013 at 10:28am | IP Logged | 12
|
|
|
I don't like it when someone goes out of their way to tell me a story didn't happen or use Pretzil Logic to twist an existing story out of shape so they can effectively write it out.
It just takes two or three of these guys to make a mockery of a Continuity and turn the whole thing into a petty squabble about what is and isn't canon.
This is pretty much my take on it. If you have to go back and change history to justify your version of the character, don't. Just don't.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Topic Closed)
