Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login
The John Byrne Forum
Byrne Robotics > The John Byrne Forum << Prev Page of 9
Topic: Should teen Super-heroes grow up? (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
Author
Message
Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Avatar
Robotmod

Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 35948
Posted: 17 July 2013 at 8:10am | IP Logged | 1  

 Brian Lewis wrote:
To James point, that is exactly why you age a character.

You are working from the presumption that mainstream superheroes as we grew up with them somehow don't or won't speak to kids in this day and age.  My experience tells me that you're wrong.  I know many kids, several personally like fellow board member Doug Jones' four year old son, who love the superheroes we grew up with and the stories that we read as children.  He picks comics out as his bedtime reading, has his father read them over and over to him and discusses them all the time.  There's nothing inherently "old school" about them that won't speak to a young modern audience...if the companies would only let them do exactly that.  They're popular on television as cartoons, they're popular as toys and they're popular with kids reading their dad's collection of books.  I fail to see how aging them and letting them "fade away" to remain only "wonderful, nostalgic memories" is anything but selfish given their popularity among the age group that helped make them popular in the first place and still enjoys reading them today if they were only written as all-ages fare. 
Back to Top profile | search
 
Brian Lewis
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 13 August 2012
Posts: 476
Posted: 17 July 2013 at 8:39am | IP Logged | 2  

"You are working from the presumption that mainstream superheroes as we grew up with them somehow don't or won't speak to kids in this day and age. "

I'm working under the comparison of similar entertainment that we grew up with and how it is significantly different (in structure, characters, and so on) specifically for kids in this day and age.

Consider the difference in family programing from the 50s to the 70s to the 90s to today. We are in a world where the stylistic differences changed from the Cleavers to the Drummonds to the Foremans to the Griffins. Now, I am not suggesting that there isn't room for older styles. My kids enjoy watching Full House on Nick at Night from time to time too.

My point though, is that not all characters should be stylistically updated to match the times that they are in. For all intents and purposes, the Superman I grew up with was not behavioraly the same Superman my dad purchased when he picked up Action Comics #1 off the shelf. But my dad did not argue and complain. But the Cleavers should not be forced to behave any different than they are.  And Batman should not be forced to behave any differently either. But because today is different, and different behaviors are enjoyed/expected, then that is why we should let go. Because to expect our way as the best way is really what is selfish.

Back to Top profile | search
 
Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Avatar
Robotmod

Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 35948
Posted: 17 July 2013 at 10:09am | IP Logged | 3  

 Brian Lewis wrote:
My point though, is that not all characters should be stylistically updated to match the times that they are in.

Agreed.


 QUOTE:
For all intents and purposes, the Superman I grew up with was not behavioraly the same Superman my dad purchased when he picked up Action Comics #1 off the shelf.

Give that same character from ACTION COMICS 1 just a year or two and he was pretty much the same from 1941 to the 90s at least.  Oh, costumes may have changed.  Rogues came and went. Some stories were goofier than others.  But the character in 1941 would not be unrecognizable to a reader from that era if he or she picked up a Superman comic in 1964, 1972 or 1981.  And that's my point.  But all of a sudden we're supposed to consider that the character should be aged and fade away simply because, what, kids have changed so dramatically in a single decade where they hardly changed at all in the decades between 1930-1990? Sorry, don't buy it.    


 QUOTE:
But the Cleavers should not be forced to behave any different than they are.  And Batman should not be forced to behave any differently either. But because today is different, and different behaviors are enjoyed/expected, then that is why we should let go. Because to expect our way as the best way is really what is selfish.

I agree with your first statement here, but not with your conclusion.  Again, you seem to operate on the presumption that for decades kids didn't change so dramatically from one generation to the next, but they suddenly do now.  1939 was different from 1950 was different from 1965 was different from 1977 was different from 1988 was different from 1999 was different from 2006.  For the most part, however, the same basic character of many mainstream superheroes remained the same.  The window dressing may not have, but the core character was there.  I do not believe that kids are so different now, have expectations that are so different from just a decade or two ago (your assumption being they didn't have any changing expectations in the preceding five decades) that either the characters have to be radically altered or they need to be aged out of existence.  That's ludicrous to me.  

At the end of the day, kids didn't leave mainstream superheroes because they suddenly had different expectations than those of their fathers, but because comic companies left them. 30 years ago companies decided it would be better to marginalize their product via the DSM thus slowly but surely eliminating the one thing all companies need to thrive; bringing in new customers.  Without new customers, companies were faced with appealing to an aging, shrinking fanbase, many of whom are demanding that these formerly all-ages characters age and grow with them.  We see some of them in this very thread. And thus the snake eats it's tail leaving nothing left for anyone.
Back to Top profile | search
 
Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 12717
Posted: 17 July 2013 at 10:22am | IP Logged | 4  

I read comicbooks from any time between the late 30s and the early 80s with my five year old boy and there's nothing he can't relate to or understand or enjoy. 

I discovered Superman in the very late 60s. First from the TV show of a decade before, the from the Filmation series, then from a combination of then contemporary comics and lots of Wayne Boring era issues a relative had. I much later found Reeve's Superman great. Sure, differences between all these are very easy to mark. But he was the same character, absolutely. 

Modern Superman is just not what he was for a good 50 years. 
Back to Top profile | search
 
Anthony J Lombardi
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 12 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 9410
Posted: 17 July 2013 at 10:31am | IP Logged | 5  

My kids were raised on Star Trek TOS, I Love Lucy, Universal's Classics.
You know what as far as they knew those shows were new and not decades old. Give a kid if it is in good condition they aren't going to ask if it's old. 
Back to Top profile | search
 
Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Avatar
Robotmod

Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 35948
Posted: 17 July 2013 at 10:37am | IP Logged | 6  

 Michael Penn wrote:
Modern Superman is just not what he was for a good 50 years.

Agreed.  And that's not because kids suddenly changed in a way we've never before seen in history such that these characters needed to change so dramatically or risk fading away, but because the companies simply don't care about appealing to kids at all on any level other than selling them toys and t-shirts. 
Back to Top profile | search
 
Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Avatar

Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4623
Posted: 17 July 2013 at 12:31pm | IP Logged | 7  

 Brian Lewis wrote:
So, with that point, heroes should age, and fade away. We should let out heroes go and make room for the next generation to have their heroes. Let them be who the kids want them to be and let our heroes be wonderful, nostalgic memories.


You are turning the argument on its head.  The reason heroes have been aged in superhero comics is precisely because the older readers are not willing to let the heroes go and make room for the next generation of readers.  Certainly Spider-Man was not aged and married off because anyone at Marvel thought he'd be more appealing to children that way.  It was because it was gratifying to veteran readers who were bored with the status quo and wanted a Spider-Man that was the same age as they were.  No hero has ever been aged because it was "what the kids wanted them to be."

No one is arguing that characters shouldn't be stylistically updated to fix the times.  What is being argued against is fundamentally changing the character, via aging or other alterations. 





Edited by Jason Czeskleba on 17 July 2013 at 12:31pm
Back to Top profile | search
 

Sorry, you can NOT post a reply.
This topic is closed.

<< Prev Page of 9
  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

 Active Topics | Member List | Search | Help | Register | Login