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Topic: Should teen Super-heroes grow up? (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Thomas Moudry
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Posted: 08 July 2013 at 8:21pm | IP Logged | 1  

The short answer to the title question is, "No."

The longer answer pretty much ranges through this thread.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 09 July 2013 at 4:57am | IP Logged | 2  

Barry Allen is the Flash. Wally West is his kid sidekick. Wally West becomes an older teen and becomes a Teen Titan. Wally West becomes an adult at least 10 years older than he was when he first appeared. Impulse is the new *12-year-old* speedster. Impulse goes from 12 to late teen as a member of the Teen Titans. How old does that make the Flash? If Batman and Superman are older than the Flash, how old does that make them?

••

Editors and writers rarely seem to do this math. And when they do, they try to make the older characters younger by suggesting they started their careers much earlier than any evidence suggests. I've heard it put forth that Bruce Wayne was 18 when he embarked upon his career as Batman!

What's especially frustrating about this nonsense is the tandem habit of aging the older characters -- think Hal Jordan and Oliver Queen -- and then introducing younger "legacy" characters because the originals are "too old". WHOSE FAULT IS THAT??

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James Woodcock
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Posted: 09 July 2013 at 6:38am | IP Logged | 3  

What is the point of aging an existing character if all this results in is a new, young version of the original character (well, it's not all it results in but you know what I mean).

You just end up with further and further deuniquing (that's not a word I'm sure) of the original. A kid sidekick deuniques the original, Aging the kid sidekick and adding further kid sidekicks (kid sidekicks to the kid sidekick)just gets stupid.

\I don't want to read about 4 or 5 different Robins, 4 or 5 different speed powered people.

But then you see similar in certain TV shows now (I'm looking at you CSI). Surely it means you just burn through stories quicker which means you have to come up with the next big thing sooner - say, kill someone.
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Andrew Bitner
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Posted: 09 July 2013 at 7:16am | IP Logged | 4  

i thought mark waid did a really nice job of dismantling the "old man" label when a cop said he thought captain america was an old guy-- and cap said "i'm 25" or similar, pointing out that even a guy with a long career as a superhero could be a young man.
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Armindo Macieira
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Posted: 09 July 2013 at 7:56am | IP Logged | 5  

If Bart Simpson is eternally 10 or 9 years old why can't super heroes stay the same age?
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John Byrne
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Posted: 09 July 2013 at 8:14am | IP Logged | 6  

If Bart Simpson is eternally 10 or 9 years old why can't super heroes stay the same age?

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A question I have posed many a time. And the most common answer is both very revealing, and very sad.

Bart Simpson, we are told, is a CARTOON, and not REALISTIC.

As distinct from a guy who was bitten by a radioactive spider and. . .

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John Byrne
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Posted: 09 July 2013 at 8:18am | IP Logged | 7  

i thought mark waid did a really nice job of dismantling the "old man" label when a cop said he thought captain america was an old guy-- and cap said "i'm 25" or similar, pointing out that even a guy with a long career as a superhero could be a young man.

••

I certainly hope Cap didn't say "25", unless the scene was a flashback to WW2.

Steve Rogers became Captain America some time around 1939/40, and spent the next five years fighting in the War. However we work "Marvel Time", he clearly did not come out of the ice day before yesterday. Several years have passed, even if they are those elusive, immeasurable comicbook years.

Even assuming Steve to have been 18 when he became Captain America, it's shaving it very fine to have him be physically 25 today. I'd think 30 would be closer to the mark.

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Brian Lewis
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Posted: 09 July 2013 at 8:24am | IP Logged | 8  

"What is the point of aging an existing character if all this results in is a new, young version of the original character (well, it's not all it results in but you know what I mean)."

I think you identified the exact point. Age the existing character in order to replace them with someone more relative and relatable to the younger audience.

I was never a Barry Allen-Flash kid. He didn't interest me. I was 11 when he died and Wally took over. As a child, I found Wally West much more interesting. I read his adventures and really got into the character. I was 19 when Impulse entered the scene. He didn't interest me, but that was okay. He didn't interest me because he was just like my friends' kid brothers.

Generational identity is a culture to itself. (Generationally speaking, there is a greater tendency to prefer their own stuff than the stuff of proceeding generations. That is demonstrated in the change from Jay Garrick to Barry Allen. I will argue that the change worked from Barry to Wally too given a 23 year publishing history. But the return of Barry seems to be a stumbling block as readers don't seem to be grabbing hold of the character.

I am not suggesting that we have to like the change. But perhaps as the elder statesman of fandom it’s more important to be supportive of change. Maybe we should let our characters age and go away and make room for younger audiences rather than trying to change our heroes into people that they are not to try and appease everyone.

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Michael Penn
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Posted: 09 July 2013 at 8:29am | IP Logged | 9  

Steve Rogers became Captain America some time around 1939/40...

***

Really? I assumed from the beginning that he tried to enlist only after Pearl Harbor!


Edited by Michael Penn on 09 July 2013 at 8:30am
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John Byrne
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Posted: 09 July 2013 at 8:39am | IP Logged | 10  

The first issue of CAPTAIN AMERICA has a March 1941 cover date. That means it would have been published some time around November or December of 1940. Given lead times back then, Simon and Kirby would likely have been working on the first issue some time between June and August of 1940. Allowing time for training, that puts his transformation some time in 1940, or possibly as early as 1939.

And, yes, that means Cap was socking Hitler in the face a year before America entered the War!

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Michael Penn
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Posted: 09 July 2013 at 8:43am | IP Logged | 11  

Cue Johnny... I did not know that!

If I remember correctly, Lee-Kirby altered his origin to post-Pearl Harbor. Must be what I was thinking of, if that's right.

For Steve Rogers to want to essentially get in the war after the Nazis invaded Poland, etc., at the very start, that does make perfect sense considering his character.

Edit: speaks volumes about the characters of Simon-Kirby too!


Edited by Michael Penn on 09 July 2013 at 8:45am
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John Byrne
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Posted: 09 July 2013 at 8:45am | IP Logged | 12  

Lots of modifications were made to Cap's origin over the years -- but I do have a certain fondness for him smacking Hitler a year before Pearl Harbor!

Of course, if Steve became Cap AFTER Pearl Harbor, that makes it easier for him to be physically 25 today -- tho it requires a considerable shortening of "Marvel Time".

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