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Mike Norris
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4274
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| Posted: 06 July 2013 at 9:20am | IP Logged | 1
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Is calling upon Odin something a non-worshiper can do? Even the Sorcerer Supreme? Odin may bestow his gifts, but does he take requests? There seems to be rules for these things.
Edited by Mike Norris on 06 July 2013 at 9:20am
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James Gouldsmith
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 December 2012
Posts: 96
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| Posted: 06 July 2013 at 10:18am | IP Logged | 2
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While none of those I mentioned were worshippers, they didn't ask either. That's a good point, Mike.
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
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| Posted: 06 July 2013 at 7:36pm | IP Logged | 3
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I imagine Odin's attitude is that he doesn't make deals or provide his power to mortal sorcerers like some street-corner Shoggoth. Loki, on the other hand...
Edited by Joe Zhang on 06 July 2013 at 7:36pm
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 35945
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| Posted: 06 July 2013 at 10:40pm | IP Logged | 4
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It comes down to this for me: don't mix your worlds too much. The X-Men face a world crisis. There's not always dialogue that indicates the Avengers, the New Warriors, Spider-Man, DD or a host of other NY based heroes aren't available to help out because what? Then they'd all attack every single threat to NYC and the world every day. Ditto here. Odin is a Thor character. He's not a Dr. Strange character. Mix him up with Strange and then it becomes incredibly muddled, at best a crutch. Best to have them separated than all in the same pond for anyone to access.
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Jason Czeskleba
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Posts: 4622
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| Posted: 06 July 2013 at 10:41pm | IP Logged | 5
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The trouble with Beta Ray Bill is that he de-uniques Thor...particularly if he's used as a recurring character. Once it was retconned that Donald Blake actually WAS Thor, rather than just some mortal who'd received the power of Thor, it doesn't really make sense to continue using the staff as a Shazam-style device that can give power to a variety of people.
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James Gouldsmith
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 December 2012
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| Posted: 07 July 2013 at 7:34am | IP Logged | 6
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Matt, none of that's stuff is an in-universe reason, tho. By all rights, unless otherwise occupied, all the NYC heroes *should* show up for whatever-crisis-of-the-moment (which they occasionally do anyways). You're basically saying Stephen Strange should choose to disregard a plausible resource to help him do his job because somebody that doesn't exist to him finds it aesthetically displeasing.
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
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| Posted: 07 July 2013 at 8:28am | IP Logged | 7
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No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that there doesn't need to be an in-universe reason. I'm fine with Odin being a Thor character. I don't need an explanation beyond that. He doesn't because he doesn't not because I find it "aesthetically displeasing". Are you requiring a story wherein it's explained why he doesn't draw upon Odin's power?
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Jeff Stockwell
Byrne Robotics Member
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Posts: 1610
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| Posted: 07 July 2013 at 8:41am | IP Logged | 8
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The problem becomes that if Doctor Strange invokes some power of Odin one time it requires an in-story explanation as to why he hasn't done it before and why he doesn't do it all the time. And why not Zeus, or Juno, or Hermes, or Thor for that matter.
My guess is if this were a question in "Strange Mails" (the Doctor Strange letters page) the answer would be something along the lines of, "Of course Doctor Strange COULD call upon the power of Odin, as well as a host of other beings. He chooses to call upon the entity whose power is most appropriate at a given moment."
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 07 July 2013 at 9:00am | IP Logged | 9
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This thread speaks to something that has gone increasingly wrong in American superhero comics, as the scales have tipped in favor of fans-turned-pro on the "creative" side of the table, and far too anal fans on the other.When I was a kid reading comics, it did not bother me that the DC heroes would team up in JUSTICE LEAGUE, but Superman would not be constantly showing up in the other character's home titles to "help out". I thought it was really cool that Superman and Batman knew each other, and that Hal Jordan and Barry Allen were friends in "civilian" life, but I did not expect their individual books to turn into mini-JLAs. Neither did I expect the Avengers to constantly show up in Spider-Man's book. When I read the first Galactus story, I did not wonder where they were, either. But some fans started asking about things like that, and some fans-turned-pro started offering "solutions". Eventually we even got to the point where it was assumed that all stories that came out the same week or month happened at the same time! That's WAY too much over-thinking. "Shared universes" are a convenience, allowing for guest appearances and villain swapping, and they can be fun, provided we don't think about it too much. Especially provided we don't start thinking there is some kind of Master Plan. There are many fans and writers who would LOVE that, but I can only imagine a kind of cosmic locked-in syndrome infecting all the books, if, say, a story could not be done in FANTASTIC FOUR unless it was approved by the editors of X-MEN and AVENGERS and SPIDER-MAN and so on.
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James Gouldsmith
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| Posted: 07 July 2013 at 9:07am | IP Logged | 10
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Yeah, that's exactly the question I'm asking, Matt. When you're a beggar, why would you not ask everyone for money?
I'm not saying Odin should be at the top of the list, but the beings Stephen routinely calls upon have denied him at various times in the past, so why wouldn't a being that's shown a predilection for giving aid not be on Stephen's speed-dial list? There's been a few decent reasons given why Odin might say no, but I'm not seeing any why Stephen wouldn't ask.
As to why not Thor or the Olympians, Thor isn't able to give mystic power since he has none of his own to give, and the Olympians have never shown an inclinination to aid mortals. The only times they meddle with us is largely for their entertainment at our expense.
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Monte Gruhlke
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| Posted: 07 July 2013 at 9:24am | IP Logged | 11
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"Logic" aside, traditionally Strange always seems to invoke spells derived from demonic dimensional entities. My guess is that these alternate occult sources allow Strange to be occult without actually being occult - like a sorcerer should.
Pre-Bendis, every Marvel book had its own unique 'universe' and mythos surrounding the main character(s). When a book was cancelled, it didn't affect other titles at all. Crossovers were rare, and that is what made them exciting.
I think drawing spell power from other Marvel character sources would create a needless and constant crossover effect that would diminish a series. I call this "Bendis-itis."
Could Strange invoke Odin, or Thor, or God Himself?
From what has been consistently presented in the Strange books, he has never done this. Is there a "logical" reason? Who knows. But really, who cares?
Strange and the Ancient One have only ever used spells that drew unimaginable power from the lower demon dimensions and that is what they used. In fact, Strange's sources are mostly, if not all, demonic.
An argument could be made that Strange can only channel demonic energies, and if so he couldn't draw from other sources. Or one could argue that Strange just hasn't found the Nordic Spellbook yet.
But why argue? Why not just read and enjoy. |
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
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| Posted: 07 July 2013 at 9:37am | IP Logged | 12
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Could Strange invoke Odin, or Thor, or God Himself?From what has been consistently presented in the Strange books, he has never done this. Is there a "logical" reason? Who knows. But really, who cares? •• Have to think, the first time Odin became aware of someone "tapping" his power, he'd take steps to prevent it.
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Topic Closed)
