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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133334
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| Posted: 03 July 2013 at 8:35am | IP Logged | 1
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The writers and artists are to blame as well. If Bendis wants Ares ripped in half by Sentry, Olivier Coipel draws it very graphically. The fans that like that kind of stuff then rush to the message boards to tell how awesome it was and publications like Entertainment Weekly write about how edgy it is.That's not to say everything in comics was unicorns and ice cream cones when I was a kid. There were stabbings, shootings, people being disintegrated, and all that stuff in comics but the artists normally handled that sort of action tastefully not gratuitously. I remember G.I. Joe #1 had Cobra kill a group of villagers (off panel) but the Joes happened onto the scene after the fact. It was a faraway shot and there were no body parts lying or anything like that. •• Thirty-five years after the fact, this scene is still remembered and cited. 
Would it have been better and more memorable if I had SHOWN what Wolverine did to that guard?
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Manuel Tavares
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 December 2009
Location: Portugal
Posts: 407
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| Posted: 03 July 2013 at 9:03am | IP Logged | 2
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The expressions on Nightcrawler and Storm faces say it all. Memorable!
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Joel Tesch
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 2830
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| Posted: 03 July 2013 at 10:49am | IP Logged | 3
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JB often says of the general public's perception of comics when he was a kid was they weren't just for kids, they were for "dumb kids." (or something to that effect).
When hearing about some of the modern storylines from today's comics, I think that in trying to become "more adult" comics have now actually become written for "dumb kids."
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133334
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| Posted: 03 July 2013 at 10:53am | IP Logged | 4
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When hearing about some of the modern storylines from today's comics, I think that in trying to become "more adult" comics have now actually become written for "dumb kids."•• Someone once commented, when Marvel first started putting an "Adult" advisory on some of their black and white magazines, that based on story content the label should actually say "Sophomoric".
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Manuel Tavares
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 December 2009
Location: Portugal
Posts: 407
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| Posted: 03 July 2013 at 11:00am | IP Logged | 5
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"Interestingly, the vast majority overwhelmingly preferred newsprint to the more modern glossy look. Over 3/4 preferred the old newsprint "smell" of the comic pages (kids notice things just like we did)."Marshall Stewart ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I think that's very interesting to know that the young readers notice and appreciate the old comic book paper odor.
To me the "smell" of a book, any book, is important, because when I start to read something I will spend some time with it and a pleasant odor exuding from the pages that I'm reading will turn the experience much more agreeable. Also resulting in a very close connection to the specific book that I'm reading. Every time I turn to that particular book I know I will be welcomed by the pleasant odor of its pages. That is something that sticks with you for a long time.
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Jesse Perkins
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 April 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 172
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| Posted: 03 July 2013 at 3:27pm | IP Logged | 6
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Would it have been better and more memorable if I had SHOWN what Wolverine did to that guard?
-------------------------------------
No, you nailed it there. That's just great storytelling.
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Marshall Stewart
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 June 2012
Posts: 10
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| Posted: 03 July 2013 at 8:59pm | IP Logged | 7
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True, Mr. Byrne. I remember my comics getting confiscated by the classroom teacher and the strange looks from her when she saw what they were; however, it is now quite interesting to note the correlation in the decrease in comic sales/interest and the drastic decrease in our children's ability to read with comprehension and read with focus for an extended period of time. Comic books filled both of these areas. I wish I had shot some video of the seniors reading them and their smiles. . . and their timeless reaction to the prices then...."Damn, 'Still only 25cent?' Hell, I'd pay a buck each if they were still this good."
Yep, the kid lapsed in his language and violated the classroom's comic code authority, but quickly apologized. This particular student had refused to read anything all semester and was destined to fail English; yet, he read through eight comics in less than ninety minutes and could recall with great detail what he read.
and that, my friends, is the purpose of education.
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Marshall Stewart
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 June 2012
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| Posted: 03 July 2013 at 9:06pm | IP Logged | 8
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To me the "smell" of a book, any book, is important, because when I start to read something I will spend some time with it and a pleasant odor exuding from the pages that I'm reading will turn the experience much more agreeable. Also resulting in a very close connection to the specific book that I'm reading. Every time I turn to that particular book I know I will be welcomed by the pleasant odor of its pages. That is something that sticks with you for a long time Manuel Tavares
Smell is the most powerful sense we possess. It affects us in every possible way. The "old newsprint" smell is akin to the smell from those ancient duplicators called "memiographs." Boy, did those papers smell good when they were fresh off the wheel and still "damp" with the duplicator fluid.
Anybody ever notice how bad school textbooks smell? or the lack of real odor from modern comics? or even modern school classrooms, in which there is no detectable smell. It's just too clean. I'm drawn to chalk and chalkboard smells, old wooden floors, etc. Kids today are growing up in "odorless" environments, and that may be affecting them in a negative way; however, I can cite no research on it. Just an observation.
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Rob Van Gessel
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 September 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 335
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| Posted: 03 July 2013 at 11:32pm | IP Logged | 9
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JB: "We've come a long way from the days when teachers TOOK AWAY kids comics!!"
I still remember THAT! Scarred me for life, man!
This last year I finally read Art Spiegelman's Pulitzer winning graphic novel MAUS. LONG overdue. Incredible experience, even for a goy like myself! I read it - again, and again, and again! I discovered something new in every reading.
Fastforward. Two months ago I got together with a group of artists and I mentioned the book. Several agreed with me and went on to talk about what a great book it would be to teach to kids. I didn't hadn't even thought of that.
The subjects horror and complexity are deceptively shaped like a storybook narrative. I think it would be an awesome literary and historical presence in high school classrooms.
I could say likewise for WATCHMEN.
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James Woodcock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 September 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7789
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| Posted: 04 July 2013 at 1:01am | IP Logged | 10
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When I was at school some 30 years ago I knew of one other kid who read comics - we got on like a house on fire and were best mates at the time.
However, I still think the main problems relate to content. You can't show kids what half the comics are showing now a days - it's just too graphic. Be that the writing or the visuals. It's obsessive and I just don't get why. It's the main reason I have quit beyond Byrne and Star Wars comics.
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Kip Lewis
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 March 2011
Posts: 2880
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| Posted: 04 July 2013 at 4:32am | IP Logged | 11
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While on one level content is a problem overall, we need
to consider age here. For a five year old boy who can't
buy comics without Mom, it is a problem. For the 13 year
old boy who can buy things without Mom, graphic violence
and near naked women are probably pluses.
(Actually some 5 year olds probably like the violence
too.)
But when one considers what too many parents let their
kids watch and play...what is in comics is not a problem.
A little kid at my cousin's school drove his parent's car
and was able to do it from what he learned playing Grand
Theft Auto. He was no older than second grade. I also saw
parents bring a preschooler to see Species 2, a movie
full of sex, graphic violence and rape. I sadly don't
think they are the exception.
Content is only an issue for discerning parents who
actually pay attention.
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Manuel Tavares
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 December 2009
Location: Portugal
Posts: 407
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| Posted: 04 July 2013 at 5:58am | IP Logged | 12
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"Anybody ever notice how bad school textbooks smell? or the lack of real odor from modern comics? or even modern school classrooms, in which there is no detectable smell. It's just too clean. I'm drawn to chalk and chalkboard smells, old wooden floors, etc. Kids today are growing up in "odorless" environments, and that may be affecting them in a negative way; however, I can cite no research on it. Just an observation."Marshall Stewart ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Yes, I can relate a lot to your observation, Marshall. There's nothing like the sweet smell of an old "newsprint paper" comic book. Fortunately there are a lot of other books that smell as good. On the other hand I would often complain on some publishers (out of the US) that print comic books in a very awfully acid stink kind of paper (Panini is one of those publishers). Worse than the lack of the sweet odor ( or even odorless ) from modern comics is the bad smell of the paper in which they are many times printed (in this case, that I know of, out of the North America).
And yes, school books smell is not so good either. IIRC it was in an interview John Byrne gave years ago that he joked about the possibility of making the printed ink of a comic book addictive to the readers, and in my opinion that is possible, maybe not using ink, but returning to the use of paper stock with sweet odor.
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