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Matt Reed Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 35786
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Posted: 02 July 2013 at 8:28am | IP Logged | 1
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Fellow board member Doug Jones told me a story about bringing his son to a newly opened comic shop in his neighborhood. This is the same kid that decided to bring a Thor Masterworks to a BBQ I had on Sunday. Doug shopped around for new comics suitable for his son to read and there was nothing. Even though they had a section set up for kids, upon looking through the comics Doug said he didn't feel comfortable with a single one of them.
Wrong on so many levels. Marvel and DC should be ashamed.
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Manuel Tavares Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 02 December 2009 Location: Portugal Posts: 407
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Posted: 02 July 2013 at 9:58am | IP Logged | 2
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I recently purchased the mini series Ultimate Comics: The Ultimates because I love Carlos Pacheco art. The story was written by Mark Millar. Well, you know Mark Millar, right?The thing is the story was about Captain America that finds out that the Red Skull is actually his son. This boy born with his father's powers although he grew arrogant and abusive of his powers. He became his father opposite and hated Cap so much that the kid decided to skin his whole head off thus the Red Skull. This Red Skull is a neo nazi, he kills and tortures everybody, men, women, and children. There's a scene where he deliberately toss a baby out of the window to death. The book is very graphic. I wouldn't give it to a child to read it in a million years. If I were a child wouldn't want to read it. Even now that story give me a chill.
Edited to add: At the end captain America literally NAILS his son with an aircraft he is send to an hospital and female member of the avengers shot him in the head while his on the hospital bed as a vengeance, it seems that he had raped her.
Foot note: I hate that story.
Edited by Manuel Tavares on 02 July 2013 at 10:06am
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Michael Penn Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 12 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 12558
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Posted: 02 July 2013 at 10:13am | IP Logged | 3
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I agree with Matt as well, surely for the most part.
My only possible reservation is that I am not sure to what degree, if any at all, reading is an activity that kids opt for today as opposed to the late 60s/early 70s when I became aware of comicbooks, not because of increased alternative activities and distractions but perhaps because of a cultural loss of reading overall and particularly at leisure. Anything kids enjoy, today or back whenever, I believe they would make time for, comicbooks included. But, perhaps, contemporary kids are more disconnected from reading for pleasure because the culture overall no longer is as physically paper-book-based as it used to be. Perhaps? I have no stats or studies to cite, mind you, so this could just be an awfully big stretch to help explain what -- back to Matt's point -- is a more simply understandable phenomenon: comicbooks are no longer child-friendly product.
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Marcel Chenier Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 19 May 2006 Location: United States Posts: 2723
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Posted: 02 July 2013 at 10:26am | IP Logged | 4
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I quit comics ages ago.
In '08 I went to Japan for four years. Hadn't seen any North American comics while there, besides the ones I brought with me, which, by the way, were universally mocked for their slim- ness (lack of pages), price, and ridiculous number of ads.
Upon my return I visited an LCS in San Diego to peruse the racks and couldn't believe my eyes at the trashy-uber violence my beloved comics had attained to.
At the time, my wife was eight months pregnant and I lamented not being able to introduce my kid to anything new. Today, my daughter is 14 months, and while Free Comic Book Day had a nice Spongebob Squarepants comic book for her to shred, there wasn't anything super-hero-ish I can imagine inviting her to read.
Not by a long shot.
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Bryan Eacret Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 08 February 2007 Location: United States Posts: 744
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Posted: 02 July 2013 at 10:31am | IP Logged | 5
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Would supermarkets and other stores want or even be able to sell Marvel or DC comics? Isn't the PG-13 to R rated content prohibitive to selling in retail stores other than bookstores? The level of graphic violence and sexual content in most comics would seem to be a huge drawback. I can't imagine the Catwoman story where she humps Batman on the rooftop being in a store, or any Wolverine story where he eviscerated to show how amazing his healing power is. There are too many inappropriate stories or scenes to even mention, which pisses me off. If kids are ever going to read mainstream superhero comics again in any kind of number, then the creators need to show more respect for the characters and the audience. Right now kids aren't the focus.
Edited by Bryan Eacret on 02 July 2013 at 10:32am
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Paul Greer Byrne Robotics Security
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Joined: 18 August 2004 Posts: 14191
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Posted: 02 July 2013 at 11:30am | IP Logged | 6
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Don't worry, Manuel. You don't dislike The Ultimates because it is bad. You dislike it because it is just different. The Ultimates is just an ELSEWORLDS version of the Avengers. Just like the MAN OF STEEL movie.
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Lars Sandmark Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 05 October 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 3144
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Posted: 02 July 2013 at 3:39pm | IP Logged | 7
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You're right Paul, the Ultimates IS just an Elseworlds version of the Avengers! Exactly like the Man Of Steel movie.
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Kip Lewis Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 01 March 2011 Posts: 2880
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Posted: 02 July 2013 at 4:20pm | IP Logged | 8
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A couple years ago I read an article that parents didn't want their kids reading books with pictures. The parents felt pictures were detrimental to reading and the trend was big enough to effect the children's book market. That isn't good for an industry based on pictures like comic books.
Not sure that trend is continuing because these things tend to cycle, but even in the best of times, parents look down on their sons reading comics.
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Steve De Young Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 01 April 2008 Location: United States Posts: 3496
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Posted: 02 July 2013 at 5:06pm | IP Logged | 9
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I think there has been a shift away from reading in general. I'm fully aware of how popular a lot of juvenile fiction has been recently, but most of it seems to me to be aimed at a teenage female audience, whereas comics were traditionally aimed at a younger, pre-teen male audience. At least superhero comics were.
When I was a kid, I devoured comics. But I also read a lot of books. I was almost constantly reading something. During the summers I would hit the library and read whole sci-fi book series. I compare this to my 10 year old nephew, who loves video games and superhero and fantasy movies, but who we can't get to read anything. We got him a Nook for a birthday present and loaded it up with stuff, but its like pulling teeth to get him to read. He loves the LotR movies and the Hobbit movie, but we got him the Hobbit and he's working through it at a glacial pace. I remember when I was in second grade I devoured that book over the course of three weeks.
I agree that the other things are a problem, too. If kids aren't interested in reading, they definitely aren't going to be interested in shelling out $4 for 20 pages of story and art that can be read in 5 minutes. Especially when those 20 pages contain some small part of a story so mired in continuity that its unintelligible to anyone who isn't a longtime comic fan. But the decline in reading in general is, I think, a real phenomenon among the young male audience that used to read comics.
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Sam Karns Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 26 December 2004 Location: United States Posts: 7624
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Posted: 02 July 2013 at 5:20pm | IP Logged | 10
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I agree Steve, what made comics cool to read was because my friends READ THEM. Conversations was at hand and it was fun to imagine and even draw stuff. Hard to do that today when most of the young kids' interests are PS3, Wii, Netflix, and the series of Disney programming are available. They can now chat on cellphones or on the units while watching. It doesn't matter how good the comic book material maybe if your friend doesn't care about it.
Edited by Sam Karns on 02 July 2013 at 5:22pm
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Steve De Young Byrne Robotics Member
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Joined: 01 April 2008 Location: United States Posts: 3496
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Posted: 02 July 2013 at 5:33pm | IP Logged | 11
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To me, the current exhibit A of what's going wrong in comics is Avengers. And I say this as someone who reasonably enjoyed Hickman's Fantastic Four.
But you've got a title that had a huge grossing, incredibly popular movie across several age demographics. But if any of those movie fans go and pick up an issue of Avengers, what will they find? If they're lucky, a cameo or two by a character they vaguely recognize from the movie, but mostly a group of characters they don't recognize trading long semi-coherent speeches with villains they don't recognize, and revelations (like: 'OMG this guy in the Marvel Universe has the Star Brand!') which mean absolutely nothing to them at the denouement of two issues of build up.
For $4 an issue. Or they can go play Marvel Heroes and play as Hawkeye for free. Or go play Avengers Assemble on Facebook. Or watch a bunch of episodes of Avengers cartoons. I mean heck, I'm the target audience for the comics now, and even I'm not interested in buying it anymore.
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Paul Greer Byrne Robotics Security
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Joined: 18 August 2004 Posts: 14191
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Posted: 02 July 2013 at 7:36pm | IP Logged | 12
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Lars, my snarky sense of humor shall remain unappreciated. :'(
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