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Andrew Bitner Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004 Location: United States Posts: 7526
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Posted: 10 June 2013 at 10:32am | IP Logged | 1
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when i read about marvel doing the secret origin of tony stark, i thought "didn't they do this in the ultimate universe? written by orson scott card?" apparently it is not possible to be "merely" a genius inventor in a world where there are gods, mutants, super-soldiers, hidden races, aliens and more all sharing our little globe. god forbid he's just a really, really smart guy.
Edited by Andrew Bitner on 10 June 2013 at 10:32am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133324
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Posted: 10 June 2013 at 10:35am | IP Logged | 2
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This 'retcon' strikes me like those wacky Superboy issues from the 60s, which kept tinkering with time-travel back to Krypton and Jor-el in suspended animation <g>.•• Ah, yes. . . I wouldn't look for much in the way of true innovation from the brain trusts at Marvel or DC. As I have said before, there is too much fear of creating "the next Spider-Man" (or, I suppose, "next Wolverine" these days). So the archeological diggin will continue -- alas with dynamite.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133324
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Posted: 10 June 2013 at 10:39am | IP Logged | 3
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apparently it is not possible to be "merely" a genius inventor in a world where there are gods, mutants, super-soldiers, hidden races, aliens and more all sharing our little globe. god forbid he's just a really, really smart guy.•• I think again of Roger Stern's comments, lo these many years ago, about one writer who was not good with superheroes. Roger said it was because he, the writer, could not imagine anyone more noble than he was -- which was not very. It's often been said that it is impossible to write someone smarter than oneself. This is clearly not true, of course, at least for anyone who has the ability to look stuff up, but I hear echoes of Roger's comment. Writers refuse, perhaps, to believe anyone could be smarter than they are, without there being a little something unnatural in the mix. (After all, Batman wins because he cheats, right?)
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Vinny Valenti Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 8119
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Posted: 10 June 2013 at 10:44am | IP Logged | 4
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I remember a comment that Chuck Dixon made on this forum years ago, that Stan and Jack created heroes with flaws, but they were not flawed heroes.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133324
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Posted: 10 June 2013 at 10:50am | IP Logged | 5
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I remember a comment that Chuck Dixon made on this forum years ago, that Stan and Jack created heroes with flaws, but they were not flawed heroes.•• Yes. Stan has often said he created Spider-Man to be like he would be, if he had superpowers (quickly adding that this statement was not to be taken as an admission that he DOESN'T have superpowers!) This is, tho, Stan is a decent, upstanding guy. He could look at his own flaws and project them onto the characters, to make them "real", but it wasn't all ABOUT the flaws. Today, when a writer thinks "here's what I would do with these powers" it all too often becomes all about self-indulgence and making money! They forget that superheroes are a CHILD'S fantasy ("If they KNEW, they'd be SORRY!"), not an adult's ("Now to KICK some ASS!") (Constantly amazed that Marvel hasn't done a 15 part miniseries about that guy under Spider-Man's arm coming back to revenge himself on "timid Peter Parker". Stupid of Spidey to spout his name like that!)
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Greg Kirkman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006 Location: United States Posts: 15775
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Posted: 10 June 2013 at 12:41pm | IP Logged | 6
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("Now to KICK some ASS!)++++++++
....and now, we have both comics and films featuring a superhero called "Kick-Ass".
Huh!
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Larry Morris Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 July 2007 Location: United States Posts: 622
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Posted: 10 June 2013 at 2:56pm | IP Logged | 7
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QUOTE:
I remember a comment that Chuck Dixon made on this forum years ago, that Stan and Jack created heroes with flaws, but they were not flawed heroes. |
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Good way of phrasing it. In any case, I really think these creators believe they are being true to the spirit of what Lee and Kirby did. I just don't agree with them. They take it too far.
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Carmen Bernardo Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 August 2006 Location: United States Posts: 3666
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Posted: 10 June 2013 at 5:32pm | IP Logged | 8
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... and now, we have both comics and films featuring a superhero called "Kick-Ass". ******************************** I prefer to call him "Ass KICKED" most times. Because that's what ends up happening to him before he drags his pulverized carcass off the floor to whip the bad guys. It's not one of John Romita Jr's better moments when he applies his craft to such a character, no matter how much I like his drawing style. But at least the character is created for that universe -- not being grafted onto an existing character which had more noble aspects up to that point.
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Shawn Kane Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 November 2010 Location: United States Posts: 3239
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Posted: 10 June 2013 at 5:58pm | IP Logged | 9
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Constantly amazed that Marvel hasn't done a 15 part miniseries about that guy under Spider-Man's arm coming back to revenge himself on "timid Peter Parker". NOW you've gone and done it! I picture Jeph Loeb pitching this to Axel Alonso right now.
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Bill Guerra Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 March 2012 Location: United States Posts: 1072
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Posted: 10 June 2013 at 6:02pm | IP Logged | 10
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That 15 part mini that JB just suggested will be what officially kills the industry ;)
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Brian Hague Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006 Posts: 8515
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Posted: 11 June 2013 at 6:20pm | IP Logged | 11
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I believe the reason we haven't seen that story is because it clearly takes place in the CoverVerse. The CoverVerse (tm & Pat. Pend.) is a universe closely associated with the more familiar one our heroes inhabit, but even more Dramatic (!) and Eye-Catching (!) The situations are far more extreme in the CoverVerse. Heroes die! Villains prevail! Every friend is a betrayer! In the CoverVerse, there is but little doubt that the Silver-Age Superman was a complete dick. Ah, but it was all in the service of the CoverVerse's number one rule: "DRAMA! And any cost! Even... the cost of my DEATH!" In fact, for a long while in the CoverVerse, it was impossible to speak a sentence that did not include the word "DIE" or "DEATH!" preferably in a differently colored font. (My favorite example of this: Superman on the cover of DCCP #47- "As long as SKELETOR magically controls me, I must attack HE-MAN-- And that means-- I could DIE!" Sadly, for many years a plague of silence overwhelmed the CoverVerse and nothing dramatic at all took place. All we saw of the heroes there were snapshots, albeit dramatically posed ones. If adventures took place there, it was impossible to tell as our glimpses into their world had little or no story content. Things are beginning to turn around in the CoverVerse and the slivers of it we see now tie in somewhat more closely to the various PageVerses we've come to know. Sadly, they are once again faced with incursions into their space from the AdVerse. Years ago, such invasions were sponsored by Toys "R" Us and the Superman Movie Contest. Today, can the threat be overcome when the comic companies themselves are launching the attacks to promote their various television programs and web-based products? Only Time Will Tell! And if it does not... That Could Mean-- Our DEATH!!!"
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Greg Kirkman Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006 Location: United States Posts: 15775
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Posted: 11 June 2013 at 9:02pm | IP Logged | 12
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I'm sure DC has plans for the CoverVerse in their next CRISIS event...
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