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Craig Markley
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3969
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| Posted: 29 May 2013 at 9:45am | IP Logged | 1
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I believe it was the Wolverine mini-series in late 1982 that Claremont & Miller did that sent Wolverine over the top. Miller's Daredevil stories were grim & gritty but the character Daredevil didn't stay dark like Wolverine did. He soon became the Clint Eastwood of comics-the anti-hero.
Wolverine paved the way for characters like the Punisher, Lobo, and the resurgence of Ghost Rider.
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Ronald Joseph
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| Posted: 29 May 2013 at 10:23am | IP Logged | 2
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This Age of Ultron story was much better when it was called TERMINATOR and T2: JUDGMENT DAY.
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Armindo Macieira
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Joined: 15 October 2006
Location: Portugal
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| Posted: 29 May 2013 at 10:55am | IP Logged | 3
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Yep, but even a teenager John Connor showed more intelligence than Susan and Wolverine when he prevented his mother from murdering Miles Dyson. They just talked to him, showed him proof of what the he was about to create and guess what, the man changed his mind!
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Jeff Stockwell
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| Posted: 29 May 2013 at 12:38pm | IP Logged | 4
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In fairness, the only characters who think killing Pym in the past is the right move are Wolverine, Emma Frost and Nick Fury. (I am inferring Fury's approval because he knows what Wolverine wants to do and he leaves him alone with the time machine.) Emma Frost is in my mind still a villain, and I can see Fury going along with assassination as a viable option. Sue Richards is the surprise, and it just doesn't make sense. I would see her as one of the last people to go along with murder.
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Steve De Young
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Joined: 01 April 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 3507
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| Posted: 29 May 2013 at 1:14pm | IP Logged | 5
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Sue Richards is the surprise, and it just doesn't make sense. I would see her as one of the last people to go along with murder.
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Well, again to be fair, Sue at first followed Wolverine with the intent of stopping him from killing Hank, but since she had just seen Ultron murder Reed, Johnny, Ben, and both of her children right in front of her, Wolverine played on that (killing him will bring your family back) to get her to let him go through with it.
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Chris Workman
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Location: United States
Posts: 278
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| Posted: 29 May 2013 at 1:43pm | IP Logged | 6
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Sorry for sidetracking this even further into a discussion about Age of Ultron, but I have to point out that while Sue may have seen those people get killed, the reader did not. Pretty much every big death in this series happened of screen, as does every big event (at some point we learn that a helicarrier crashed into the Kremlin, not because of an awesome Brian Hitch drawn splash page depicting same, but because a talking head told us so). Such is the state of modern comics - big stuff happens off screen and talking heads tell us about it.
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Steve De Young
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| Posted: 29 May 2013 at 2:07pm | IP Logged | 7
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Such is the state of modern comics - big stuff happens off screen and talking heads tell us about it.
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I don't know that that's completely fair. I don't know how I ended up defending Bendis, but I think starting the story where he did is a legitimate choice. I mean, the basic plot is that Ultron has taken over the world and killed all but a handful of heroes, Cap leads most of the remaining heroes in a desperate final assault that's probably a suicide mission, while Wolverine makes the terrible decision to murder one innocent person to try to save billions, and then the consequences of that choice unfold (and presumably, at the end, time travel is used to 'fix' everything).
Within the framework of that story, I think choosing to start after the apocalypse has happened, and focusing on Wolverine making that choice and the consequences of that choice, rather than spending an issue or issues depicting all the details of the apocalypse happening, is a fair storytelling choice.
That said, there's plenty to fault about the pacing of what could have been a three issue story (Issue 1 - apocalypse has happened, Wolverine makes his decision, goes back and kills Hank, Issue 2 - we see the terrible consequences, Issue 3 - We do whatever time travel trick fixes things). But I don't think taking even more pages to show double page splashes of (another) helicarrier crash would necessarily be an improvement over just being told it crashed during the general destruction.
Edited to Add: And I would MUCH rather have what we got, a panel of Wolverine with his claws pointed at Pym saying to Sue, "Ultron murdered your family right in front of you. Let me do this and I can bring them back. I can bring them all back!" than see a panel of an Ultron drone disemboweling Franklin Geoff Johns-style.
Edited by Steve De Young on 29 May 2013 at 2:22pm
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Lars Sandmark
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Joined: 05 October 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 3144
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| Posted: 29 May 2013 at 2:56pm | IP Logged | 8
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Bendis has built his comic writing career at Marble by recycling (and padding) storylines from Marvel's heyday. Particularly John Byrne stuff.
-Replace Ultron with Sentinels and there you have 'Days Of Future Past', and Secret Invasion built from FF #249-250 skrulls impersonating heroes etc.
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Lars Sandmark
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| Posted: 29 May 2013 at 2:59pm | IP Logged | 9
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Susan Richards wouldn't condone the murder of Hank Pym regardless of the circumstance. She already proved that in established continuity when she disagreed with Nick Fury trying to kill Hitler. HITLER!
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Tshombe K. Hamilton
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| Posted: 29 May 2013 at 3:26pm | IP Logged | 10
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As I have mentioned in the past I was 9 years old when I picked up my first issue of Uncanny #121. For me Wolverine became my favorite.
I could not get enough of this character, In X-men #123 when Peter becomes brainwashed and attacks the X-Men he takes out Logan with relative ease, as you would expect him to do.
***Side Note: In your Art of JB, you mentioned how you were looking to make Peter the " hero" of the group much in the same way as Ben was in the FF. ******
Imagine my shock when Peter throws Scott down the hall and Scott thinks he is going to die because he does not have unbreakable bones like Wolverine. What??!?!? Unbreakable bones?!?!!? COOL!!!!!
Again back to the the Art of JB where you mentioned that the Canadian Government replaced Logan' skeleton with an adamantium one. SWEET!!!
I too always felt there was never a Scott/Jean/Logan triangle. Scott loved Jean and Jean loved Scott. Logan pounded rocks.
What is funny is that according to JB Chris was going to kill off Logan. Once JB turned Logan into a viable character and left the book, Chris just went bananas. We see Logan turned into some kind of "failed Samarai"
What killed my love for the character was the bone claws. To me that was the result of the belief in a Logan with no claws would not sell.
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Mark Haslett
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Joined: 19 April 2004
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| Posted: 29 May 2013 at 3:55pm | IP Logged | 11
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Lars: Bendis has built his comic writing career at Marble by recycling (and padding) storylines from Marvel's heyday. Particularly John Byrne stuff.-Replace Ultron with Sentinels and there you have 'Days Of Future Past', and Secret Invasion built from FF #249-250 skrulls impersonating heroes etc.
**
I'm no authority on Bendis, but you state my impression as a casual observer. And wasn't "House of M" a Bendis "created" re-do of JB's interrupted Avenger's West Coast Scarlet Witch arc?
Plus Bendi's much lauded Daredevil/Kingpin arc was basically a remake-as-sequel to Miller's Born Again arc.
Of course everyone's standing on the shoulders of giants in this industry. I still shake my head that Bendis! can be a big thing when the artists he borrows from get the bum's rush.
Edited by Mark Haslett on 29 May 2013 at 3:56pm
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Greg Woronchak
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Joined: 04 September 2007
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| Posted: 30 May 2013 at 8:42am | IP Logged | 12
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Bendis has built his comic writing career at Marble by recycling (and padding) storylines
Age of Ultron seems like a grimmer retread of House of M (which actually wasn't bad as a mini-series).
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