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Shawn Kane
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Joined: 04 November 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 3239
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| Posted: 25 May 2013 at 1:05pm | IP Logged | 1
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I remember when the Claremont/Buscema title came out. I thought it was kind of foolish because the X-Men is where I wanted to read Wolverine stories. It was the opposite of the Avengers where characters with solo books became members.
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Jeff Stockwell
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1610
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| Posted: 25 May 2013 at 1:10pm | IP Logged | 2
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Without Wolverine I certainly think The Punisher would be a largely forgotten Spider-Man villain instead of one of the characters that helped Marvel survive the 90s. He appeared in easily as many books as Wolverine did.
Without his critically hailed Wolverine limited series would Frank Miller have ever written The Dark Knight Returns? Without DKR does comics spiral into the darkness of the late 80s? I certainly don't think Watchmen ever would have happened. Without DKR Tim Burton's first Batman film would never have been made.
Without Wolverine, comics and a lot of today's pop culture would look incredibly different.
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Vinny Valenti
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Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8229
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| Posted: 25 May 2013 at 1:28pm | IP Logged | 3
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I wonder how different Wolverine would have LOOKED without JB. He
really stylized his look (both masked and unmasked) and I honestly
think that played a big part in his lasting popularity.
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Steve De Young
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Joined: 01 April 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 3525
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| Posted: 25 May 2013 at 1:29pm | IP Logged | 4
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And I do believe there would have been no Deadpool with no Wolverine, first. Deadpool is basically Wolverine mixed with Spider-Man smart-aleck-ness and the Joker's dark sense of humor.
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I think self-healing mercenary Wade Wilson with a full face mask, guns and swords, might owe more of his origin to a certain other character from another company than to Wolverine.
Basically, he started off as a Deathstroke clone (one of many) of Liefeld's, then Fabian Nicieza gave him Spider-Man's personality, then Joe Kelly started writing his comic breaking the fourth wall ala JB's She-Hulk.
Is there a connection I don't know about (other than their fight in X-Men/Teen Titans) between Wolverine and Deathstroke?
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Glen Keith
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Joined: 04 July 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 851
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| Posted: 25 May 2013 at 1:36pm | IP Logged | 5
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Is helping to popularize Wolverine your biggest professional regret, JB?
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Stephen Robinson
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5833
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| Posted: 25 May 2013 at 2:12pm | IP Logged | 6
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Wolverine is also a victim of MARVEL TEAM UP rot, when Marvel
began to betray key concepts for sales. Spider-Man the loner teamed
up with other characters, and Wolverine the loose cannon got his own
series when he is best kept in check by the true star of the book
Cyclops.
The Wolverine miniseries by Miller and Claremont also added fuel to
the cowboy samuari approach to the character, which glamorized an
essentially dangerous character.
And the fans were getting older and started to view Cyclops as the
boss they resented and Wolverine as the misunderstoo rebel they
thought they were rather than the bruiser who bullied them in school.
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Brad Krawchuk
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 June 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 5814
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| Posted: 25 May 2013 at 3:48pm | IP Logged | 7
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I think self-healing mercenary Wade Wilson with a full face mask, guns and swords, might owe more of his origin to a certain other character from another company than to Wolverine.
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I think Matt may have been referring to the fact that, Deathstroke wannabe or not, Deadpool (and Kane, and Maverick, and X-23, and Fantomex...) were all products of the Weapon X program. No Wolverine popularity, no Weapon X, none of those other characters that ride Wolverine's coat tails by being loosely associated with him through that program.
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Mark Haslett
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Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6727
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| Posted: 25 May 2013 at 3:49pm | IP Logged | 8
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I do believe something big was tapped by having the under-valued Wolverine be as cool as he was on your run while being part of the under-valued X-Men comics. Their rise together was a thrill to watch and it contained a rebellious streak that struck a deep chord -- one which the X-Men without Wolverine had not quite been able to strike.
I remember the youthful "rebellious" kick I got out of telling adults that my favorite Superhero had a psychopathic tendency and would sometimes just go berserk.
However, as far as alternate history goes, if JB had not picked up and dusted off the Wolverine character-- there was a young Frank Miller in the wings waiting to do the same thing to the Punisher character. It seems as though a certain Clint Eastwood vibe was going to strike comics around that era-- with JB's Wolverine or not. As we know, Punisher rose to similar heights as Wolverine after Denny O'Neil and Frank Miller's treatment of the character in Spider-Man and Daredevil comics.
So the question to me is "would the bell have rung much quieter without Wolverine?" I think probably, but I suspect there was a ground swell of "grim and gritty" that was there to be tapped by someone and Wolverine happened to be an incredibly attractive character for that previously unrealized enthusiasm.
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Stephen Churay
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Joined: 25 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 8369
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| Posted: 25 May 2013 at 4:18pm | IP Logged | 9
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Without Wolverine Madness, does the types of books that brought
about the nineties even happen? How does the popular anti-hero take
hold if the dye hadn't already been cast. Do books like Watchmen,
The Dark Knight Returns and Year One become successful?
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Armindo Macieira
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Joined: 15 October 2006
Location: Portugal
Posts: 955
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| Posted: 25 May 2013 at 4:55pm | IP Logged | 10
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First of all, thanks for saving Wolverine since he's one of my favorite characters (the original, not the immortal, unkillable one)...
I tend to agree that Wolverine was very much a victim of circumstance. The late 80's and the 90's brought the "grim and gritty" that affected comics (both Marvel and DC) and Logan was in the perfect place at the perfect time to ride the wave, much like the Punisher, but unlike Castle, Wolverine had a best supporting cast and was able to keep himself in the spotlight until now.
Yes, the industry would have been different without Wolverine, but I believe another character would step into his void, maybe Daredevil, maybe Sabertooth, maybe a new character, maybe the Punisher would fill the void properly and become the sole "poster boy" from the 90's,...
Curiously enough, Wolverine is not the best at what he does anymore, from what I've been reading, Cyclops is currently more unbalanced, hot tempered and grim and gritty than Wolverine himself. Go figure...
Edited by Armindo Macieira on 25 May 2013 at 4:55pm
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Mike Norris
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Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4274
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| Posted: 25 May 2013 at 4:55pm | IP Logged | 11
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QUOTE:
I wonder how different Wolverine would have LOOKED without JB. He really stylized his look (both masked and unmasked) and I honestly
think that played a big part in his lasting popularity. |
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Romita, Kane and Cockrum created Wolverine's costumed look and Cockrum created the unmasked look. Though, I guess JB refined them a bit, It's funny how many artists go back to the yellow and blue costume with stripes when designing new looks for Wolverine,
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Nathan Greno
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Joined: 20 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 9154
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| Posted: 25 May 2013 at 6:00pm | IP Logged | 12
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Stephen: Do books like Watchmen,
The Dark Knight Returns and Year One become successful?
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I guess one could question if those books would have happened... but if they did happen without Wolverine in the timeline, they would still be successful, no? I had a friend who didn't really read comics. He read my copy of Dark Knight and loved it. You don't need to like or "experience" Wolverine in order to enjoy any of those books.
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Topic Closed)
