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Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
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| Posted: 07 May 2013 at 10:40pm | IP Logged | 1
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GLEN: If guns are hard to get, the determined criminal will make bombs, or use bladed weapons (in the right hands, a sword can cause as much death as a gun), or even resort to bows.
SER: "The right hands" are the key words. Guns are especially deadly because of their relative simplicity of use (point and shoot) and capacity to kill in great numbers. You need very little training or skill to slaughter dozens of people if you have an assault weapon.
This actual thread was inspired by a 5 year old's fatal shooting of a 2 year old. A 5 year old can't operate a motor vehicle -- not just legally but physically. If a 5 year old could even lift a sword, he would likely not have the strength necessary to fatally injure anyone.
The NRA also misleads people when it claims that "good guys with guns" could prevent the murders in Newtown or Aurora. What makes them "good" guys is that they don't shoot indiscriminately without concern for bystanders nor do they shoot first and ask questions later*. Trained police officers have stated that it would have been difficult for them to stop Lanza without major loss of life. All the bad guy has to do is start shooting.
*What's especially mind-boggling is that idiots have decided to parade around town armed to the teeth with assault rifles to "exercise their second amendment rights." How the hell do they propose that anyone else in Starbucks tell the difference between them and someone who is going to kill everyone there? Unless the "good guys with guns" wear white hats and the "bad guys with guns" wear black hats, dozens of people are most likely dead before you can sort out the intentions.
Of course, it would be much simpler to determine who the "good guys with guns" were if those people were wearing uniforms and had badges. We'd also be able to presume a base line of professional training.
Trayvon Martin's death is also a good reminder of the danger of armed vigilantes.
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Glen Keith
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 July 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 851
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| Posted: 08 May 2013 at 4:03am | IP Logged | 2
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"(from second-hand anecdotal evidence, I presume - ?)"
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Since I don't live in London and my information came from the BBC and various London newspaper websites, which cite Scotland Yard statistics, then I guess you could state that I got my information second hand.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133579
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| Posted: 08 May 2013 at 4:26am | IP Logged | 3
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in the right hands, a sword can cause as much death as a gun…•• The best swordsman in the world cannot stand in a doorway (or on a rooftop!) and slaughter a dozen people who are yards away. Please join us over here in the real world, or get out of this discussion.
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David Ferguson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 6782
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| Posted: 08 May 2013 at 6:57am | IP Logged | 4
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If guns are hard to get, the determined criminal will make bombs *** Bombs are harder to get as even purchasing the ingrediants will raise flags. You wouldn't object to that legislation would you?
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Jodi Moisan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 6832
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| Posted: 08 May 2013 at 7:27am | IP Logged | 5
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If guns are hard to get, the determined criminal will make bombs Well let's continue to make it easier for them. That makes so much sense. So glad the republicans support making it easier for criminals to get their hands on a gun. Funny thing is, the start of this thread is because some dumbass gave their 5 year old a gun and he killed his little sister. Maybe , just maybe that 5 year old would NOT have made a bomb.
Edited by Jodi Moisan on 08 May 2013 at 7:28am
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 08 May 2013 at 7:34am | IP Logged | 6
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Funny thing is, the start of this thread is because some dumbass gave their 5 year old a gun and he killed his little sister. Maybe , just maybe that 5 year old would NOT have made a bomb. •• But he could have STABBED her with a SWORD! Because, you know, EVERYONE has SWORDS!!
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Jodi Moisan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 6832
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| Posted: 08 May 2013 at 7:42am | IP Logged | 7
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Wait, you mean the child size Excalibur sword I gave Jackson for his 4th birthday, could have hurt someone??? Silly me, I just never let him run with it.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 08 May 2013 at 7:47am | IP Logged | 8
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The reality is, kids can hurt themselves and others with JUST ABOUT ANYTHING.Doesn't make giving them real guns a smart idea, tho.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 08 May 2013 at 8:47pm | IP Logged | 9
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I've found myself thinking more and more about this insane (and is there really another word?) dodge of the gun nuts, that the "bad guys" will get guns no matter what we do. Imagine this thinking applied over the past few centuries to other areas of our lives. - Pointless to seek cures or vaccines for various diseases. People will always get sick. - What is to be gained by insisting on building safer cars or airplanes? There will always be accidents. - Waste of time and money developing new farmlands and new crops to grow there. There will always be people who go hungry. - What's to be gained by freeing slaves? They will never all be as well educated and prosperous as the best educated and most prosperous White people. - Same for poor White people. No way to turn them ALL into Vanderbilts and Rockefellers, so why bother at all? - And why force those rich White people to squander their wealth on safer working conditions, better health plans and wages for their employees? There will always be those who, due to accident, old age, or sheer carelessness will be destitute and nearly starving. - Why try to fix ANYTHING, if it can't be fixed COMPLETELY and FOR ALL TIME?
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Jodi Moisan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 6832
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| Posted: 08 May 2013 at 10:11pm | IP Logged | 10
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It is very sad, it seems to a lot of people on several issues, they have just given up on striving to do better. I just read an article that fewer people feel protecting the environment is an important thing to be concerned about. And higher education is being almost looked down upon. Idiots and fools are being made TV stars people admire.
Have we as a nation reached our plateau? Are we the next Roman Empire?
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Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
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| Posted: 08 May 2013 at 11:59pm | IP Logged | 11
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Gun rights advocates have over the past few months demonstrated that it's impossible to negotiate with them. They display a degree of dogmatic zeal that has not been seen since the Spanish Inquisition.
They oppose background checks because it will prove a "burden" on law-abiding citizens and gun dealers. The former makes no sense -- law-abiding citizens would still be able to get guns. The latter is a sickening concern. "Oh no, the Mom and Pop gun shop might have to cut back because one of their lunatic customers can't pass the more restrictive background checks."
However, what's especially terrifying is when the NRA publicly states nonsense that even the most innocuous proposals -- despite all assertions to the contrary -- are just a first step toward the confiscation of all guns. How can you negotiate with this degree of paranoia? And these people are armed.
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Koroush Ghazi
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 October 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1681
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| Posted: 09 May 2013 at 12:36am | IP Logged | 12
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Glen Keith wrote:
| In 2005 The New South Wales Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research concluded that they had no evidence that their gun laws had no effect one way or another. |
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Please do not misrepresent the effects of Australia's gun laws. For example, from this recent analysis of the various statistics:
QUOTE:
| In the decade before Port Arthur [the gun massacre at Port Arthur, where 35 people were killed and 23 wounded, sparked our gun ban], Australia had an average of one mass shooting (involving five or more deaths) every year. Since then, we have not had a single mass shooting. The odds of this being a coincidence are less than one in 100. |
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QUOTE:
| ...firearm suicide and homicide rates more than halved after the Australian gun buyback. Although the gun death rate was falling before 1997, it accelerated downwards after the buyback. Looking across states, we also found that jurisdictions where more guns were bought back experienced a greater reduction in firearms homicide and suicide. |
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It's common sense. Reduce the number of deadly weapons that are freely available in the community, and you reduce deliberate and accidental deaths resulting from such weapons. Given these weapons have no other useful purpose than to kill or wound living beings, the reduction in utility from removing them from our community has been zero.
Then again, we do not have a mainstream culture of gun worship in Australia. There is something bizarre and somewhat frightening about the way the average American appears to think they have not just a need, but a right, to carry a deadly weapon with a complete lack of accountability or social responsibility. Makes me doubly glad to live in Australia, that's for sure.
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