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Glen Keith
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 July 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 851
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| Posted: 07 May 2013 at 4:16am | IP Logged | 1
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The printer gun story is indicative of why, from a pragmatic view, I don't see the effectiveness of most gun laws. People who want guns badly enough will find a way to get them, no matter what barriers are put before them. The simple truth is that the technology exist and it isn't particularly difficult to replicate. Unfortunately, you can't un-invent guns, and emotional appeals against them will not stop those determined to own them.
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Glen Keith
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 July 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 851
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| Posted: 07 May 2013 at 4:19am | IP Logged | 2
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"Please tell me why there were different outcomes, in an almost identical situation? "
======================
The Bath School bombing was an almost identical situation, and resulted in the deaths of 45 people, 38 of which were children.
People who want to commit violent acts will find a way. Life sucks like that.
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Tom French
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 January 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4154
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| Posted: 07 May 2013 at 4:35am | IP Logged | 3
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"This project's really about 'F*** your laws.' You know what I'm saying? It's stepping up, being able to go, 'You know what, I don't like this legal regime. I neatly step out of it. Now what?' You know?" —Cody Wilson, whose company announced that it has created a functioning plastic handgun produced by a 3-D printer, and plans to make the schematics freely available online
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Petter Myhr Ness
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 July 2009
Location: Norway
Posts: 3903
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| Posted: 07 May 2013 at 4:43am | IP Logged | 4
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People who want to commit violent acts will find a way. Life sucks like that.
--
Yeah, but shouldn't we make it a bit harder for them?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133277
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| Posted: 07 May 2013 at 5:04am | IP Logged | 5
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"This project's really about 'F*** your laws.' You know what I'm saying? It's stepping up, being able to go, 'You know what, I don't like this legal regime. I neatly step out of it. Now what?' You know?"•• Out here in the real world, we call this "being a criminal".
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133277
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| Posted: 07 May 2013 at 5:48am | IP Logged | 6
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In I, CLAUDIUS, the Emperor Augustus refers to a group of knights who are avoiding marriage and children as "murderers of your own posterity."This phrase applies with even greater accuracy -- and tragedy -- to gun advocates and the NRA.
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Peter Martin
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 15937
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| Posted: 07 May 2013 at 6:07am | IP Logged | 7
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The printer gun story is indicative of why, from a pragmatic view, I don't see the effectiveness of most gun laws. People who want guns badly enough will find a way to get them, no matter what barriers are put before them----------------------------------------------- Most kids want to underage drink as well, and often find a way to do it. Maybe we should get rid of controls to stop kids drinking.
Anyone who is banned from driving can easily drive if they want to. Perhaps we should also get rid of the requirement for a driving licence?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133277
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| Posted: 07 May 2013 at 7:03am | IP Logged | 8
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The printer gun story is indicative of why, from a pragmatic view, I don't see the effectiveness of most gun laws. People who want guns badly enough will find a way to get them, no matter what barriers are put before them•• Then let's abandon ALL law! Some people break them, no matter what they are. Murder. Rape. Kidnapping. No reason to have laws against them since, as we have seen, they still happen!
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Jodi Moisan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 6832
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| Posted: 07 May 2013 at 10:13am | IP Logged | 9
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The Bath School bombing was an almost identical situation, and resulted in the deaths of 45 people, 38 of which were children.
People who want to commit violent acts will find a way. Life sucks like that.
Glenn the knife attack and gun attack is an example of the ease the gun made to kill. Just because people break laws, does not mean we don't try to stop the ease in which idiots can do mass damage.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133277
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| Posted: 07 May 2013 at 10:48am | IP Logged | 10
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The Bath School bombing was an almost identical situation, and resulted in the deaths of 45 people, 38 of which were children. People who want to commit violent acts will find a way. Life sucks like that. •• Yup, so let's all give up! Hemlock for everyone!
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Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7526
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| Posted: 07 May 2013 at 11:45am | IP Logged | 11
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"criminals will find a way/won't obey the laws anyhow" is perhaps the most insidious, despicable dodge out there. as noted, why should we have ANY laws? by that logic, NOTHING should be illegal since criminals will just do it anyway. sheesh. i can't believe such a stupid talking point persists, much less that some people agree with it. there are a LOT of facts about the dangers of simply owning a gun. elevated risk of arguments turning lethal, elevated risk of successful suicide, elevated risk of accidental gun-related death. all on the off chance that they *might* be able to kill a guy one day and have it be totally justified. not a damned bit of it makes a difference to the gun zealots who value their firepower over their families' lives. how many gun owners have killed their own kids, thinking it was an intruder? how many is too many?
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Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
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| Posted: 07 May 2013 at 1:18pm | IP Logged | 12
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JB: "If the idea of owning guns is for PROTECTION, the very concept of an ASSAULT rifle is wrong by definition.
"Assault" is something against which one protects oneself, not something that one uses AS protection. Assault is the aggressive act, not the protective one. Assault STARTS the fight."
BILL: JB, there you go using logic. You know the gun nuts will NEVER go for any kind of logic or sense!
SER: I find a thread of vengeance in the motivations of most people who want to own assault weapons. Protecting your family makes all the sense of the world. But I'd prefer to avoid the conflict -- buy the greatest home security system in the world, actually know my neighbors and have a watch system, and so on...
Deep down, owning an assault weapon is not about chasing the bad guy away, it's about *killing* him. Lindsey Graham argued against an assault weapon ban with a story in which a woman used a shotgun to defend herself from an intruder. He was wounded but managed to get away. With an assault weapon, he would not have gotten away. She was safe in both scenarios, but the latter apparently fulfilled Graham's bloodlust.
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