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Eric Kleefeld
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4422
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| Posted: 06 April 2013 at 5:51pm | IP Logged | 1
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Going back to that original Flash story, nowadays even the waitress would turn out to be some kind of undercover agent for the government, or an alien — or maybe both!
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Wallace Sellars
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 17678
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| Posted: 06 April 2013 at 6:07pm | IP Logged | 2
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I remember the early, almost soap-opera storylines featuring Spidey's
supporting cast members... his high school etc. They had no powers...
but they interested me almost as much as the super-heroics.
---
What you describe is probably my favorite era of Spider-Man comics.
Some people complain about the pseudo teen speak Stan Lee used,
but those characters felt (feel?) about as "real" to me as any in comics!
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Brad Brickley
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8286
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| Posted: 06 April 2013 at 6:08pm | IP Logged | 3
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One of the things I'd like to see in comics is the ordinary people of our heroes stay in two different camps. One where his secret i.d. people are that area of his life and his ordinary people in his hero area are another and the two don't meet.
To me this makes connecting the dots a little harder for the civilians in our heroes lives. Plus it seems more plausible how things would really be in our heroes lives.
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Chuck Wells
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1244
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| Posted: 07 April 2013 at 5:55am | IP Logged | 4
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Part of the reason that this kind of thing is SOOO tiring, is the fact that - in my opinion - it stems from how we as fans have allowed too many modern creators to get away with the mindset that they "must" create something in order to have some kind of validation for their having gotten the gig on this or that title in the first place.
"We're the guys who CREATED the red-headed-step-child version of SO & SO". [You know, that third-string supporting character who was always annoying back in the old days, and nobody EVER realized how important he/she really was in the "big picture"; isn't that AWESOME, dude?]
(We are so cool!)
Yes, my friends! WE allowed shit like this to take root.
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Simon Williams
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 23 March 2013
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 89
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| Posted: 07 April 2013 at 5:58am | IP Logged | 5
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(Hangs head in shame...)
:D
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132644
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| Posted: 07 April 2013 at 6:08am | IP Logged | 6
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Part of the reason that this kind of thing is SOOO tiring, is the fact that - in my opinion - it stems from how we as fans have allowed too many modern creators to get away with the mindset that they "must" create something in order to have some kind of validation for their having gotten the gig on this or that title in the first place.•• One tweak to that. I think this springs more from modern "creators" NOT wanting to actually "create" something. When I was starting in the Biz, a common mantra among writers and artists -- especially the less talented ones! -- was that they were not going to "give Marvel the next Spider-Man!" There was this basic assumption that these people of minimal talent were going to create some new character who would explode across the pages of Marvel comics, and make the company millions of dollars, in which the "creator" would have no share. This mentality seems to have persisted in varying degrees ever since, and I think it's the main reason some of these "creators" will transform existing characters rather than come up with new ones. If they turn Joe Shmoe into a superhero, and he becomes super-popular, these "creators" don't feel as if they have "lost" something. (The irony in all this, of course, is that while people were worrying about creating and losing "the next Spider-Man" they were largely unaware that "the next Spider-Man" had already been created, and nobody noticed. Wolverine.)
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Simon Williams
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 23 March 2013
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 89
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| Posted: 07 April 2013 at 6:14am | IP Logged | 7
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(The irony in all this, of course, is that while people were worrying about creating and losing "the next Spider-Man" they were largely unaware that "the next Spider-Man" had already been created, and nobody noticed. Wolverine.)
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Marvel are pretty good at that. They have some brilliant characters that they aren't using to potential (Death's Head anyone?), yet they'd rather focus on Neil Gaiman's ANGELA. I'm unaware of the reasoning behind that... I wasn't aware she was that popular a character.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132644
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| Posted: 07 April 2013 at 6:26am | IP Logged | 8
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I have no idea who either Death's Head or Angela are, so I can't comment on whether they make an apt analog to Wolverine.The important thing here is that Wolverine's journey to fame and fortune was a long one. He was not immediately hailed as a brilliant new character when he showed up in the Hulk's book (I barely noticed him, and that little bit only because they blared "CANADA" across the cover and caught my attention), and when he was brought into the X-Men the fan response was mostly negative. He was by no means an "instant hit" like Spider-Man. In some ways, in fact, his story is a closer parallel to the Hulk's!
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132644
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| Posted: 07 April 2013 at 6:27am | IP Logged | 9
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The first think that pops into my head is Peter Parker's parents being secret agents.•• This is one of the Great Dumb Things of Marvel's history -- and largely ignored thereafter for many years. Quite appalled to see it being incorporated into the latest Spider-Movie!
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Simon Williams
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 23 March 2013
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 89
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| Posted: 07 April 2013 at 6:42am | IP Logged | 10
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John.... Death's Head is a character from Marvel UK, who has a very large fan following that Marvel don't seem to be able to grasp. He's a robotic bounty hunter (although he prefers to be called "Freelance Peacekeeping Agent"!) who started off as a supporting character in the UK Transformers title, fighting the Transformers. He became so popular that Marvel UK gave him his own title. I think you'll love this... because to transfer him from the Transformers universe (which Marvel has established is different from Marvel continuity, even though Spider-man appeared in the original limited series), he was blasted into the crossroads of time where he encounters.... the Doctor! Marvel UK had the rights to Doctor Who at the time, so they had the 7th Doctor dump Death's Head on, of all places... the Baxter Building! From here he went on to battle the Fantastic Four (Walt Simonson even featured him in his FF run), She-Hulk and the Incredible Hulk (which I'm very proud to have been the artist on!)! I think you'd enjoy him as a character... especially with the Doctor Who connections. I'd especially love to see you draw him some day (I'm saving for a commission... ;)). Here's a link if you'd like to read up on him: :)
As for Angela... she was created by Neil Gaiman for Todd McFarlanes' SPAWN title. There was a big court battle for ownership rights between Gaiman and McFarlane, and Gaiman won. Marvel have come to an agreement with Neil Gaiman to introduce the character into the Marvel Universe.
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Wallace Sellars
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 17678
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| Posted: 07 April 2013 at 6:51am | IP Logged | 11
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Simon, I know you meant that link for JB, but when I clicked it, there was no
informational text on the page.
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Joe Smith
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 August 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6640
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| Posted: 07 April 2013 at 7:09am | IP Logged | 12
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I'm glad Gaiman is writing.
He's never lost for an idea.
I, ahem,dream of the day I can afford my JB commission, as large as
money permits, featuring the Endless in an Escheresque setting.
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