| Author |
|
Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 35945
|
| Posted: 06 April 2013 at 8:31am | IP Logged | 1
|
|
|
Sam Karns wrote:
| I think they both wanted the Hulk to be a superhero. |
|
|
Not really sure what this means. A superhero in the traditional sense? What has always resonated to me with regard to the character is the misunderstood monster aspect, an individual who only wanted to be left alone but, nonetheless, was always drawn into confrontation because of who he was. Given that situation, the Hulk always tried to do the right thing. What has rarely resonated with me is the Hulk with Banner's mind played as a traditional superhero. Talk about taking everything unique away from the character and making him just another strongman.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Simon Williams
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 23 March 2013
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 89
|
| Posted: 06 April 2013 at 1:46pm | IP Logged | 2
|
|
|
One of the reasons the Hulk's original run lasted only six issues, I'm sure, is that there was no real consistent portrayal of the character, issue to issue.
--
Definitely agree there... it's like Stan and Jack didn't know where they wanted to go with the character, and were making it up on the go!
The Hulk definitely works better as a Jekyll and Hyde character. The Banner Hulk in Bill Mantlo's run didn't work for me (although the way he handled the regression into the Savage Hulk was brilliant in my opinion. I still get chills when I read the issue where the savage persona returns!). Peter David's Merged Hulk started out interesting... but then became too human for my liking.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
|
| |
Sam Karns
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7624
|
| Posted: 06 April 2013 at 5:03pm | IP Logged | 3
|
|
|
Banner with the assistance of Rick Jones developed a machine which disburst gamma rays so Banner could turn into the Hulk when he wished and fight the bad guys. There were some consequences when Banner did this, he would end up very weak--like an invalid. I find it interesting what Stan and Jack were doing in the early days of their creation. Making Banner Jekyll and Hyde is what it is "same old, same old" It's interesting reading the Avengers where the Hulk, in control, is fighting along with Earth's mightiest heroes.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6427
|
| Posted: 06 April 2013 at 5:44pm | IP Logged | 4
|
|
|
I'm so skewed-- I had a pocket book of Hulk 1-6 and read them too many times to count. I think those issues are on fire with ideas and, to me, THAT is what feels like the Hulk. The mystery in those six issues kept me breathless to read what came next-- and when I did read Pocket Book Hulk #2 it didn't feel like the same world at all.
I have grown to love the steady model of Hulk from his Astonish/Incredible Hulk years, but I prefer the unpredictable Banner/Hulk/Rick Jones core of those first six issues.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 35945
|
| Posted: 06 April 2013 at 7:56pm | IP Logged | 5
|
|
|
Sam Karns wrote:
| It's interesting reading the Avengers where the Hulk, in control, is fighting along with Earth's mightiest heroes. |
|
|
Have you actually read the first three issues of AVENGERS, Sam? Are you talking about the same Hulk "fighting along with Earths mightiest heroes" who said this in issue #2:
"I never suspected how much each of you hate me, deep down! I could tell by the way you fought me...by the remarks you made!"
The same Hulk that was only on the team for all of three issues? Those are the halcyon days of the Hulk?
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Sam Karns
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 26 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7624
|
| Posted: 07 April 2013 at 12:47am | IP Logged | 6
|
|
|
Starting with THE INCREDIBLE HULK #4 vol 1, Banner gained control over his Hulk persona thanks to the radiation treatment he had developed. Not only did his mind and memories remain in his Hulk form, but he could now change at will with the aid of his radiation machines. Using the Hulk's power to defeat strange villains, Bruce came to enjoy having a body that was so indestructible and strong. Rick noticed though that Banner becomes much more aggressive and shorter-tempered whenever he transformed into the green goliath. And each time he switched identities, the radiation treatment took longer and longer to take effect. It was during this controlled state of affairs the Hulk saved the world from a menace called the Metal Master in THE INCREDIBLE HULK #6 vol. 1. Recognizing the creature's heroics (and perhaps realizing he had never killed anyone during his rampages), the President pardoned the Hulk. In The AVENGERS #1 vol. 1 Thor locks Loki up in a land that prevents his body from getting out but Loki gets out his soul. He then finds Thor only to find he is in his human form as Dr. Blake, but he feels that if he defeated Thor like this it would be a hollow victory, so he goes and finds the Hulk. He makes an illusion of dynamite near the Hulk on some train tracks. The Hulk thinks the dynamite is real and it is going to explode so he goes down and tries to grab the dynamite, but since there is none he goes through the illusion of the dynamite breaking the train tracks and going into a small hole. A train is coming so Hulk picks up the tracks and the train goes by. The train conductor saw the Hulk and thought he was trying to kill everyone on the train so the hunt for Hulk begins. Rick Jones sees the headline in the newspaper and so he tries to call the Fantastic Four through a radio signal. Loki wants Thor so he changes the radio wave signal to Thor. The message is also heard by Iron Man, the Wasp and Ant-Man. All the heroes go to the house of Rick Jones when Thor sees out from the window an illusion of the Hulk. Thor takes the bait and Thor is brought to Asgard. All the other heroes chase the Hulk to a circus, and then they go to a tire factory. Thor then finds Loki, defeats him and returns to Earth stopping fight between the team and Hulk. Loki tries to escape by becoming radioactive but Ant-Man traps him in a lead container. The Banner-controlled Hulk became a founding member of the Avengers.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 35945
|
| Posted: 07 April 2013 at 9:38am | IP Logged | 7
|
|
|
Well, that's a nice cut-and-paste job of an overview of AVENGERS 1 but it still doesn't really answer my question. The Hulk was an Avenger for all of three issues. He was more of a foil in those three issues than he was a teammate, so I'm absolutely unclear as to how anyone can pine for the days where he fought alongside the Avengers.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
|
| Posted: 07 April 2013 at 10:53am | IP Logged | 8
|
|
|
The Hulk as an Avenger has the same problem that Spider-Man as an Avenger does -- it removes a great deal of the drama from the character. As an Avenger, Banner would have resources to focus on a cure and access to reliable containment measures for when the Hulk was out of control. He wouldn't have to be on the run... and well, that's just what defines the Hulk for me.*
Interestingly, The Hulk as an Avenger in the movies might work because you can imply that the team is facing something so great that it's worth tracking down Banner and risking unleashing a green WMD. Of course, you still sort of wind up with Reed Richards and the Thing all in one.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
|
| |
Bill Catellier
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 September 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 3225
|
| Posted: 07 April 2013 at 11:09am | IP Logged | 9
|
|
|
Hulk as an Avenger doesn't work for me. Though I read it LONG after the issues came out, I was quite pleased with how the Hulk left the Avengers in the first place. I much prefer Bruce/Hulk as a solo act with the occasional guest star.
Oddly, I didn't have that trouble with the Defenders. I think he was handled better there.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133324
|
| Posted: 07 April 2013 at 11:25am | IP Logged | 10
|
|
|
The Hulk as an Avenger happened for a very simple reason: the Avengers were intended to be Marvel's JLA, and at that point in time Marvel had nothing like the roster of characters to be found at DC. So Stan and Jack used everyone they could, everyone who was "free" to be in a group. Iron Man, Thor, Ant-Man, the Wasp. . . and the Hulk. Did it make sense for the Hulk to be in the Avengers? No, of course not. But I was, like, thirteen, and having the Hulk in a book my mother would actually let me BUY was way cool!Stan and Jack came to their sense a few issues later, and the Hulk was gone. Didn't hurt that they had Captain America to "take his place"! An important thing to keep in mind whenever one is reviewing the early years at Marvel, is that most of the creative decisions were made for purely commercial reasons. The FF were created because Martin Goodman told Stan to come up with a copy of DC's hugely successful JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA. The success of the FF prompted the creation of a whole spate of new superheroes -- not all of which set the world ablaze in quite the same way. The Hulk was created to cash in on the popularity of the Thing, and it didn't take. Ant-Man jumped thru all kinds of hoops trying to pull in the readers, but to no great success.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133324
|
| Posted: 07 April 2013 at 11:26am | IP Logged | 11
|
|
|
Oddly, I didn't have that trouble with the Defenders. I think he was handled better there. •• The Defenders were created as "the team of characters who would not be in a team". So, the Hulk fit right in! (A sad contrast to the Champions, who were "the best of what's left".)
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
David Plunkert
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 July 2012
Posts: 536
|
| Posted: 07 April 2013 at 11:56am | IP Logged | 12
|
|
|
The ad hoc feel to early Avengers issues is a big part of the book's charm to me. I love the original team and the Hulk battle issues but Cap's kooky quartet had about the greatest chemistry of any Avengers group....its almost as if Stan discovered you could make any weirdo team viable as long as Captain America was on it.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Topic Closed)
