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James Howell
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 23 September 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 363
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| Posted: 25 March 2013 at 1:06pm | IP Logged | 1
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What a waste of time spent by the artist...That joke could have been told in 2 small panels, not an entire page. The penciller and inker had to waste time overly rendering this page for a hacky joke that's been done to death? Indie writers at work, still doing their "doonesbury" shtick, If I was a young reader, I'd rather see how Hawkman got blood on him, instead of seeing him sit at a table.
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Eric Kleefeld
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4422
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| Posted: 25 March 2013 at 1:25pm | IP Logged | 2
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Greg Woronchak:
QUOTE:
One of the aspects of older comic books that appeals to me is the wonderful and subtle use of pacing. Pages are structured so that the end of the page creates a mini-cliffhanger that makes the reader eager to turn to the next page; stuff actually happens within a single issue, creating a sense of 'movement' from quiet moments to bombastic action.
This approach fits comic books well; I find the problem today is writers trying to treat them as movie 'storyboards', although I can see how they'd then be easier to pitch to Hollywood suits (sigh). |
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I've often gotten this feeling from reading a lot of Silver Age comics, that every page was its own cliffhanger ending. Again, I can refer back to one of my favorite single comics, The Incredible Hulk #1. As just one example, here is the bottom row of page 3:
As for likening modern comics to movie storyboards — wouldn't you rather watch an action movie in which every minute or two you had a mini-cliffhanger? This is another element where, as Robert White noted, the Marvel movies of the last few years have gotten things very much right.
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Ronald Joseph
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 April 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 1784
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| Posted: 25 March 2013 at 1:45pm | IP Logged | 3
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What a waste of time spent by the artist...That joke could have been told in 2 small panels, not an entire page.
Or it could have been skipped completely, freeing up a page that could have either been used to tell a story or depict superheroes actually being superheroic!
They used to do that! Often! And the world was a better place...
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Ed Aycock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1004
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| Posted: 25 March 2013 at 2:14pm | IP Logged | 4
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As much as I love "BONE," I felt Jeff Smith used that multi=panel approach too much. One place where I really do think it worked was at Wolverine's wedding in X-Men 173 when Madeline was put in charge of looking over Lockheed. But that was - yikes- 30 years ago.
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Eric Kleefeld
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4422
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| Posted: 25 March 2013 at 2:22pm | IP Logged | 5
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What really strikes me about that Hawkman gag is that the panels really are simulating a set of widescreen movie storyboards. But it's being drawn in the service of a throw-away gag — instead of, say, a big action-packed fight scene!
In older comics, that same joke could've been done in a single row of three panels.
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Greg Woronchak
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 September 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1631
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| Posted: 25 March 2013 at 2:44pm | IP Logged | 6
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the panels really are simulating a set of widescreen movie storyboards
I notice that a lot as well in modern books. 'Wide' panels are often 'wasted' or used incorrectly (IMO).
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133279
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| Posted: 25 March 2013 at 3:05pm | IP Logged | 7
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…the panels really are simulating a set of widescreen movie storyboards…+++++ I notice that a lot as well in modern books. 'Wide' panels are often 'wasted' or used incorrectly (IMO). •• Is the whole issue done "widescreen" like this? When I used this formate for JURASSIC PARK: THE DEVILS IN THE DESERT, I found myself confronted with several instances per issue where the format was "wasted", just as, in a movie, the images do not make maximum effective use of the wide screen every time. It's part of the storytelling process that sometimes we must have "quiet" scenes. (I took to calling them "the adventures of Steve Rogers", back in the day when I was working on CAPTAIN AMERICA). If only that page was done in this format, tho, I would not call it entirely "wasted". The GAG is a waste of time and space, yes, but the "widescreen" format serves the gag quite nicely.
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Ed Love
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 October 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 2712
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| Posted: 25 March 2013 at 3:22pm | IP Logged | 8
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It seems to be popular with Geoff Johns' comics. The whole comics haven't been done that way, but there are quite a few of the widescreen panels, often with what seems for little reason. I noticed a tendency to widescreen panels in Aquaman by Ivan Reis, The choice often seemed odd as there was little going on in the vast majority of the panels (such as containing a single head shot with a bare background and little to no word balloons) or there seemed to be some odd cropping and angles to go along with that panel choice. Looking at some of Johns' other comics and the issues of Aquaman post-Reis, the trend is still there leading me to believe this is a choice by the writer, and not something Reis is particularly adept at pulling off. The Hawkman-Vibe page is a case where it seems to be an appropriate choice on Johns' part. Still, the first panel on the page is a complete write-off, the joke works just as well starting with the second panel, maybe better.
Edited by Ed Love on 25 March 2013 at 3:23pm
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Andrew W. Farago
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Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 25 March 2013 at 3:48pm | IP Logged | 9
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I'd like to have a plaque that says "comics aren't movies" mounted in the workspace of every cartoonist, writer and artist. There are things that movies do better than any other medium, but there are a lot of things that comics can do better than any other medium, too. Embrace that, and stop trying to make your comics read like failed screenplays.
I haven't read the issue, but as long as the above gag is there to slow things down and provide a break from the action, it's good for what it is. If it's part of an entire 20-page issue where the JLA is sitting down and talking about starting a new group, not so much.
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Greg McPhee
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Joined: 25 August 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 5088
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| Posted: 25 March 2013 at 4:29pm | IP Logged | 10
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Johns clearly hasn't got the comedy timing Giffen and DeMatteis brought to the JLA.
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Andrew W. Farago
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Joined: 19 July 2005
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| Posted: 25 March 2013 at 6:27pm | IP Logged | 11
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I can hear Blue Beetle laughing about that one. "One page! One page! He only managed a single joke in one page!"
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Clifford Boudreaux
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Joined: 19 July 2012
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| Posted: 25 March 2013 at 7:19pm | IP Logged | 12
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I admit I got a chuckle out of that Hawkman page, but it's a three-panel gag. Had Giffen done the same joke, those three panels would have taken up one-third of the page thanks to his nine-panel grid.
I've read a fair number of decompressed comics. I think Warren Ellis did an excellent job of it on The Authority, telling three epic four-part tales. He's good when he does three or four part stories, while his six issue stories tend to be horribly padded. I think his Transmet should be a lesson on how to "write for the trade". It had lots of one-part stories. It had lots of three-part stories. It even had a few six-part stories. He knew trade paperbacks were important and DC liked six-issue collections, so he made damn sure there was a natural break every six issues but didn't structure the whole thing around six-issue arcs.
Bendis was probably the worst at it, as he was far more interesting in watching characters in colorful costumes talk to one another than watching them punch each other. I love character-centric story telling, but there's an art to it. Someone like Tarantino can watch characters talk all day, but he can build tension like no one else, culminating in some of the most thrilling action sequences in modern movies. Bendis' conversations just lead to more conversations with the occasional fight scene thrown in.
Edited by Clifford Boudreaux on 25 March 2013 at 7:46pm
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