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Eric Kleefeld
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 December 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4422
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| Posted: 21 March 2013 at 2:22pm | IP Logged | 1
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The Captain Marvel thread got me thinking about Alan Moore's Miracleman series, and the shadow it has cast over Captain Marvel and many other superhero characters.
While looking through the series, I realized something: Alan Moore told his entire Miracleman story in the space of 15 issues, including the original serialized content in Warrior magazine that was repackaged in American-style single issues. (There were 16 issues total, one of which was a set of reprints of classic Marvelman stories.)
Not only that:
INVISO TEXT (Click or highlight to reveal):
| Moore's story arc ends with Miracleman and his alien allies taking over the entire world, and thoroughly remaking Earth society as a far-out superhero utopia. This all occurs in the space of the final issue. |
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When did people get the idea that they should (or even could) do a lot less story in the space of a lot more issues?
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Adam Jones
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Joined: 20 March 2013
Location: United States
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| Posted: 21 March 2013 at 2:39pm | IP Logged | 2
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My understanding is in the realm of comics that this is a Brian Michael Bendis led phenomenon.
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James Howell
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Joined: 23 September 2012
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| Posted: 21 March 2013 at 3:34pm | IP Logged | 3
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Buying single issue comic books just don't pay off, cause nothing happens in each issue, there's no contained story per issue. An issue that costs 4 bucks..Mike Wieringo was complaining about this kind of storytelling in an podcast interview on wordballoon.com in 2005..so this style has been here for a while. No wonder comics sales are dwindling...Last time I bought a comic, all the heroes did was stand around and talk, or the pages was full of pin-ups, no action at all.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 21 March 2013 at 3:37pm | IP Logged | 4
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Decompression is just another word for undisciplined.
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Paul Greer
Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 18 August 2004
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| Posted: 21 March 2013 at 3:44pm | IP Logged | 5
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Some of my favorite Alan Moore stories were his eight page Green Lantern Corps back-ups. Whatever anyone thinks of Moore I don't think decompression would ever be used to describe his storytelling. Decompression may have been around before Bendis, but he has pushed the boundaries of dragging out a story like no other.
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Adam Jones
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Joined: 20 March 2013
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| Posted: 21 March 2013 at 3:46pm | IP Logged | 6
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I kinda wonder if the source of this is writers who watched anime in the late 90s. Dragon Ball Z and Gundam took at least 10 episodes per scene.
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Steven Legge
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Joined: 28 July 2012
Location: Canada
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| Posted: 21 March 2013 at 5:59pm | IP Logged | 7
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Decompression is just another word for undisciplined
Its also another word for "business model". I would not be surprised if it were decided beforehand, based on how big the TPB will be, as to how many issues it will take to tell a story.
I've been reading All New X-Men and I actually like it a lot... But it sure does take its sweet double-ding-dang time getting from point A to point B. "The High Ways" is on speed with an energy drink chaser in comparison.
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Ronald Joseph
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Joined: 18 April 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 1784
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| Posted: 21 March 2013 at 5:59pm | IP Logged | 8
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These days, it seems that entire issues are crafted around what we were used to having happen off panel or in one or two pages between the actual fun stuff.
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Shane Matlock
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Joined: 12 August 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 1760
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| Posted: 21 March 2013 at 6:45pm | IP Logged | 9
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One of the things I love about Brian K Vaughan and Fiona Staple's Saga comic is there is no trade waiting or decompression to it. Every issue something happens or a lot of somethings happen. I feel like I'm getting my money's worth. It doesn't move at a snails pace or require you to read six issues for anything to happen. Every single issue is an adventure. It's definitely not for kids but there is virtually no decompression which is something that can't be said about most comics these days.
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Robert White
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Joined: 16 April 2004
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| Posted: 21 March 2013 at 6:47pm | IP Logged | 10
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It's a marketing model, "made for the trade", but it's also a scam from my perspective. I read various comic message boards and many readers complain that the individual issues are "boring" and that "nothing happens" then seem to shrug and say "Well...I'm sure it will read better in the trade." So, basically, it can be seen as a way to get the same gullible readers to buy the same comic, twice, in quick succession.
This leads to another problem I'm having with the made for trade format. There is a lot of stuff being released nowadays in trade format that really doesn't deserve it. I mean, virtually everything Marvel and DC publishes gets the trade treatment. This is leading to a glut of mediocrity like we've never seen before on the trade racks.
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Ed Aycock
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Joined: 05 May 2004
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| Posted: 21 March 2013 at 6:54pm | IP Logged | 11
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Conversely, serialized TV shows tell more and more story in 10-13 episodes than some shows used to in an entire season. I was watching "Dynasty" Season 5 which has 30 episodes and it tells one long, long, long story - only partially redeemed when a royal wedding is crashed by terrorists and everybody is (seemingly) gunned down.
But I can watch an eight-episode series of "Downton Abbey" or 13 episodes of "Mad Men" and not feel anything was rushed or poorly paced.
For me, the best key for comics storytelling were the arcs with the subplots underneath that kept bubbling even when stories were told and completed, one good example being issues 125-137 of X-Men which were relentless and fantastic and told about four stories you could break up (Proteus, White Queen, Visit to the Hellfire Club and the emergence of Dark Phoenix) but also read together.
Beats an entire issue of characters talking and talking and talking.
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Robbie Parry
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Joined: 17 June 2007
Location: United Kingdom
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| Posted: 21 March 2013 at 7:04pm | IP Logged | 12
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Disillusioned was too mild a word for when I picked up a Superman issue for the first time in years (back in 2004) and the entire issue featured Superman talking to a priest, with flashbacks about some disappearance of a population or something.
I often wonder how much TV influenced it. Years ago, standalone tales in series were great. Occasional "decompression" worked. For example, there was a three-part A-Team tale featuring a mission, a court martial and an escape which simply could not have been told in one forty-two minute episode, but they were very much exceptions to the rule.
Yet I have seen episodes of some modern shows which really didn't need to be season-long arcs or three-parters. Less can be more. One of my favourite superhero TV shows is the live-action Superboy series which crammed quite a bit into a 20-minute episode, but nothing ever felt wrong and it was entertaining. Compared to SMALLVILLE, which I think dragged things out at times, the Superboy series was much, much better, if you ask me.
Perhaps comics would have went that way, anyway, but I do wonder if Hollywood and TV has influenced things. For me, a good example of movie decompression are the second and third PIRATES OF THE CARIBBEAN movies - in my view, the third one was mediocre and boring in places and I feel they should have combined the plots of the second and third movies, trimmed a little and just given us two movies.
In a nutshell, it seems TV is interested in season-long arcs (which don't always work), Hollywood is interested in trilogies and comics are interested in trade paperbacks.
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