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Robert White
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4560
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| Posted: 14 March 2013 at 9:28pm | IP Logged | 1
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Many people criticize Thanos as a character for being a "rip-off" of Darkseid. Okay, sure, to an extent, but many of us still love Captain Marvel and Marvel's Thor, even though they can be seen as Superman "rip-offs", right? To me this critique is flimsy as best. It's like refusing to like any great pop band after the Beatles because they came first.
The hard truth, having read most of their appearances, is that what Starlin did with Thanos when he brought him back in 1990 is make him a more interesting and nuanced personality than Darkseid. I love Kirby and think Darkseid is an awesome villain, but he's simply not as complex as what Thanos became. Starlin made Thanos as interesting as JB's expansion of Dr. Doom. That's impressive.
So, I ask, why the dislike of Thanos in some sects? I rarely see this held against, as I pointed out, Superman "rip-offs" like I do with the Darkseid/Thanos situation.
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Thom Price
Byrne Robotics Member
L’Homme Diabolique
Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7593
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| Posted: 14 March 2013 at 9:49pm | IP Logged | 2
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For me it's a tough comparison because, despite obvious and intentional similarities, I really think they're very different.
Darkseid works best as a remote threat, ominously working through his minions. I don't think he's a character who should be slugging it out with superheroes; this has been the increasingly common approach to the character, but it robs him of his dignity.
Thanos seems more like the 'get his hands dirty' kind of villain, which makes him more accessible.
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Mike Norris
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4274
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| Posted: 14 March 2013 at 9:54pm | IP Logged | 3
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Thor's a Captain Marvel, Jr rip off. ;)
I like Thanos, as you said he's become something more than a Darkseid "rip off", just as Captain Marvel has evolved into something more than a Superman clone.
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Stephen Churay
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 8369
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| Posted: 14 March 2013 at 10:11pm | IP Logged | 4
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I enjoy both Thanos and Darkseid. I think Thanos seems more of a
rounded character due to the help of people like Starlin and high
profile projects like INFINITY GAUNTLET.
Most people think of Darkseid they stop with Kirby's work, JB's
LEGENDS and Levitz work on LOSH. The last to really don't add
much to Darkseid as a character. Many forget the work JB put into
Darkseid during his NEW GODS and FOURTH WORLD runs, because
it wasn't as high profile a project. Robert, go back and read or reread
those runs and I think they'll level out as far as being nuanced and
well rounded.
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Eric Smearman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 5821
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| Posted: 14 March 2013 at 10:55pm | IP Logged | 5
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Darkseid has suffered due to poor handling at DC. They allowed him to
be turned into a punching bag for Doomsday, for example. They did a
one-shot SUPERMAN VS. DARKSEID special were the Man of Steel
out-slugged the Lord of Apokolips. Don't get me started on his portrayal
in FINAL CRISIS or SEVEN SOLDIERS.
These things were done by writers and artists whose work I usually
really enjoy. What were they thinking? Were these things their ideas or
were they editorially mandated? Does it matter? They've done some
serious damage to a great character.
Marvel, by comparison, has done a better job of cultivating Thanos as a
big villain and compelling character. He may get his hands dirty mixing
it up with Thor and the Thing but, to my knowledge, he's never been
defeated by brute force and he's never been used as a tackle dummy
to show how tough some newer menace is.
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Brian Hague
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006
Posts: 8515
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| Posted: 15 March 2013 at 12:58am | IP Logged | 6
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The parallels between Thanos and Darkseid run deeper than the ones the exist between the examples you cite, Robert. The visual, for instance is more or less exact, except for a few costume details and the Skrull chin folds. Thanos could simply be Darkseid in another suit. I know that when he started off, he was a bit thinner and supposedly a take on Metron more than Darkseid, but that's not how the character reads. My opinion has been, "If DC doesn't mind enough to sue, why should I care?" The jilted obsession with Death is a compelling enough character trait to keep him interesting, but his origins as a take on Kirby's New Gods are simply impossible to look past. I expect we'll be seeing a lot of the guy soon, what with his involvement in the film franchise now... I hope they retain the actor who cameo'ed in the part. I harbor no ill will towards Thanos, but neither do I find much there to praise...
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Stephen Churay
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 8369
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| Posted: 15 March 2013 at 4:06am | IP Logged | 7
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The jilted obsession with Death is a compelling enough character trait
to keep him interesting,...
====
This reminds me of something that has perplexed me about people's
perception of Darkseid. People look at Thanos' obsession with Death
as a trait that separates him from Darkseid. What do they think the
Anti-Life Equation is anyway?
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Pedro Bouça
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Portugal
Posts: 1465
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| Posted: 15 March 2013 at 4:36am | IP Logged | 8
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Anti-Life Equation is CONTROL! Darkseid is a dictator, not a nihilist. I admit liking Thanos far more than Darkseid. That's for a good reason, with rare exceptions (the Kirby, JB and Simonson runs on New Gods), Thanos is usually on better stories. I understand that happened with Captain Marvel too. Superman may have been the original, but got outsold by Captain Marvel during the Golden Age because he was more appealing.
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Eric Smearman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 02 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 5821
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| Posted: 15 March 2013 at 4:42am | IP Logged | 9
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The Equation is the key to unlocking the power of Anti-Life which, as I
understand it, is the removal of free will.
I'm going by memory, so if someone can add to that - or correct it, if
need be - please feel free.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133245
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| Posted: 15 March 2013 at 5:07am | IP Logged | 10
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I'll confess, Thanos is a character I cannot take seriously, because I find him to be. . . goofy looking. All due apologies to Jim Starlin, but the busy, bright costume is such a contrast to the plain solidity of Darkseid. And I have a LOT of trouble getting past that Skrull chin!Given the way things were done at Marvel, back in the day, I wonder if the colors were Jim's choice. Those bright hues don't say "death" to me!
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Armindo Macieira
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 October 2006
Location: Portugal
Posts: 955
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| Posted: 15 March 2013 at 5:37am | IP Logged | 11
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Being a "Marvel kid" I knew Thanos before I knew Darkseid. Maybe that changed my perspective, but I never seen him as a Darkseid rip-off. Yes, he has some visual similarities and both are major villains, but similarities are not that uncommon between Marvel/DC characters.
I like Thanos. Like Eric said, Marvel always cultivated Thanos as one of their top villains (if not THE top villain) so, every time he's involved in something, I know it's going to be something big and the heroes are going to be in some serious troubles.
I like that aura of power and threat surrounding Thanos!
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Jason Mark Hickok
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 February 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 10472
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| Posted: 15 March 2013 at 5:41am | IP Logged | 12
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I really like the Thanos character. One of my favorite villains. I think
there is a lot more to him than just a Darkseid rip. Really looking
forward to seeing him in the Avengers.
I would love DC to use Darkseid in the Justice League movie.
Unfortunately, with the lack of comic knowledge in the general public, it
would appear that DC was ripping off Marvel!
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Topic Closed)
