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Lars Johansson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 June 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 6113
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| Posted: 14 March 2013 at 10:44am | IP Logged | 1
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Not stating that JB and the site owners had stated otherwise. I should have written you should show that you love each other.
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Greg Woronchak
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 September 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 1631
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| Posted: 14 March 2013 at 10:54am | IP Logged | 2
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kill your idols" thing going on
When I was a very 'young' artist, finding faults with the art of pros gave me a sense that I didn't suck so badly. The 'faults' were usually subjective things, and of course I was a dolt. At the same time, I was envious of their success, and being critical was how I dealt with that feeling. I can't speak for Larsen's reasoning, but I am glad that I've gotten (hopefully) wiser in my old age <g>.
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Terry Thielen
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 May 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 480
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| Posted: 14 March 2013 at 1:09pm | IP Logged | 3
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I find it very interesting when people critique artwork. I've seen plenty of people on here talk about others artwork. I find it thought provoking that someone's eye perceives an artwork differently. I'm pretty sure I remember a topic about Kirby's Spider-Man drawing as inked my Miller. People chimed in about how the webbing was wrong. Some doctored the image to try and "correct" it. A Kirby image! It was an interesting exercise. I'm sure someone will tell me how it's different and you may be right, but Larsen's critiques and "corrections" seem the same idea. If someone is a jerk, does that mean that everything they do is jerky?
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Sergio Calvet
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 April 2004
Location: Spain
Posts: 183
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| Posted: 14 March 2013 at 2:42pm | IP Logged | 4
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Occurs to me that if I had to use examples to explain to someone... types of mistakes that you can find in comic pages... I guess I have plenty of examples in my own stuff to do so.
Side note: The artist of Freak Force was Victor Bridges.
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Ronald Joseph
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 April 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 1784
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| Posted: 14 March 2013 at 2:55pm | IP Logged | 5
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Side note: The artist of Freak Force was Victor Bridges. Thaaaaat's it. Thanks!
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Jason Mark Hickok
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 February 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 10472
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| Posted: 14 March 2013 at 6:44pm | IP Logged | 6
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I'm reminded of when Jack Kirby died, and I was told "You are the new
King, now!" I used this as the opening to my eulogy to Kirby, going on
to point out how I was NOT, in fact, the "new King", or anything even
close. In one of the most bizarre moments of my career, Larsen
"responded", blasting me for daring to call myself the King, and listing
the same reasons I had why I was not!!
----------------
Well I found out Liefeld was the "new King", they told me so at that
fateful Chicago Comic Con all those years ago!
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Brian Hague
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006
Posts: 8515
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| Posted: 15 March 2013 at 1:12am | IP Logged | 7
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Ronald Joseph wrote: "We're all human beings and should love each other!" I don't know about this, Ronald... Have you met human beings? Some of the worst people I've ever known are human beings... On a different topic, Erik Larsen seems to be someone who will never fully escape the gravity his early heroes exerted upon his imagination. He apparently thinks of himself as hip or cocky, with a certain irreverence for those artists, but he can't... stop... his preoccupation with them. Even knowing the contempt he's engendered with his mouth-moving-faster-than-his-mind commentaries, he simply gives himself giggle fits poking at the bear... A truer sign of artistic maturity would be to NOT do these sorts of things, but Larsen's not that guy. He's this guy, and always has been. Always will be, apparently.
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Dana Smith
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 187
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| Posted: 15 March 2013 at 9:17am | IP Logged | 8
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Mr. Larsen apparently needs to be on some sort of medication.
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Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6277
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| Posted: 15 March 2013 at 10:33am | IP Logged | 9
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Terry: I'm pretty sure I remember a topic about Kirby's Spider-Man drawing as inked my Miller. People chimed in about how the webbing was wrong. Some doctored the image to try and "correct" it. A Kirby image! It was an interesting exercise. I'm sure someone will tell me how it's different and you may be right, but Larsen's critiques and "corrections" seem the same idea. If someone is a jerk, does that mean that everything they do is jerky?
**
The Miller inks changed Kirby's pencils and THAT was the start of the conversation.
There are principles to drawing Spider-Man on-model. There are principles in storytelling that can be done well or poorly. There are principles to design that can be employed to help or hurt readability.
But if you want to jump in and correct someone else, you had better know from whence you speak and be correct-- or you open yourself up for being rightly called on it.
Larsen's critique is a web of mystery-- his changes reflect complete disregard for what the work is that he's critiquing. You have to wonder if there's some other agenda that got him so far out on a thin limb.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132662
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| Posted: 15 March 2013 at 10:43am | IP Logged | 10
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Larsen's critique is a web of mystery-- his changes reflect complete disregard for what the work is that he's critiquing. You have to wonder if there's some other agenda that got him so far out on a thin limb.•• When offering critical commentary on someone else's work, it is vitally necessary to avoid the trap of judging said work on the basis of whether or not it is how the critic him/herself would have done it. There have been several editors I have worked with over the years who have fallen into this trap -- rewriting my scripts not because there was anything WRONG with them, but because I had not turned a phrase in just the way the editor would have. (One editor rewrote the dialog for a new character, appearing for the first time! I asked him if planned to follow that character from then on, wherever she might appear, "correcting" her dialog so it read like he wrote it. He got the message, and restored my dialog.) Larsen apparently leaps into this trap with the zeal of an Olympic diver -- and, of course, adds the level that that which is not how he would do it is, by definition, WRONG. What an incredibly boring world it would be, if everyone drew like Erik Larsen!
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Vinny Valenti
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 8072
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| Posted: 15 March 2013 at 11:00am | IP Logged | 11
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Well, I certainly would never have been a comic book collector in that world!
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Ronald Joseph
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 April 2011
Location: United States
Posts: 1784
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| Posted: 15 March 2013 at 11:14am | IP Logged | 12
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I don't know about this, Ronald... Have you met human beings? Some of the worst people I've ever known are human beings... Oh, I agree 100%. In fact, I take the "Agent Smith" position when viewing "humans" in general - "Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You move to an area, and you multiply, and multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern: a virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet." I still maintain the notion that we should love each other. But I know we won't. As for Erik Larsen - logical observations of his behavior don't really hold up, as he's not coming from a constructive place. There is no higher purpose behind his actions and words. He is doing excactly what Brian Hague said - "poking at the bear..."
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Topic Closed)
