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Topic: Uhmmm. . . . ? (Now with FREE Art Lessons from Erik Larsen!) (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Joe Zhang
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Posted: 23 March 2013 at 5:21pm | IP Logged | 1  

"Yeah, but would Erik's initial critique (not the later, indisputably taking a poke at JB ones) have come off as unprofessional if it had been from someone like Mark Bagley or Paul Ryan or Ron Lim or someone else who doesn't have a real online persona, and who didn't have some prior beef with JB?  "

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I think if it came from Bagley, Ryan, or Lim, it would have been somewhat strange. But it would have been not nearly as offensive because, unlike Larsen, all of them are actually very good artists. 
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Brad Krawchuk
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Posted: 23 March 2013 at 5:47pm | IP Logged | 2  

All of them are actually professional, too. Has anyone ever heard any bad Bagley stories? You're talking about a few guys - Bags, Lim, and Ryan - who do solid, consistent work, and who as far as I can tell treat the job like a job and don't get involved in trying to provoke the rumour mill. 

IF one of those guys had a Twitter or Facebook account where they did what Larsen did, the way he did it, my first instinct would be to think they'd be hacked, and that it wasn't really them. 
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Wallace Sellars
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Posted: 23 March 2013 at 5:57pm | IP Logged | 3  

Does anyone here follow Dave Johnson's cover critique blog? If so, what are
your thoughts?
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Mike Norris
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Posted: 23 March 2013 at 5:58pm | IP Logged | 4  

I've never cared for Larsen's art. I dropped the Doom Patrol when he took over from Lightle. So I can't really take anything he says about art seriously. 

Edited by Mike Norris on 23 March 2013 at 5:58pm
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Glenn Brenner
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Posted: 23 March 2013 at 6:09pm | IP Logged | 5  

Larsen needs to keep is name in the "Papers" anyway he can, because The Savage Dragon can't do that for him anymore, and this is the easiest way for him to do it. 
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Shawn Kane
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Posted: 23 March 2013 at 6:36pm | IP Logged | 6  

I took his "gave the Thing a bath" comment as taking a shot at JB. It wasn't critiquing, it was a condescending comment made online for people to see. We've talked about others that have done the same kind of thing but Larsen making the smug "bath" comment shows a disrespect towards the art and the artist. Since I'm not a fan of Larsen's artwork, I have a difference of opinion with his take. It's his holier than thou attitude about it that makes me roll my eyes.
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Brennan Voboril
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Posted: 23 March 2013 at 7:58pm | IP Logged | 7  

Shawn you hit the nail on the head.  
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Chad Carter
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Posted: 23 March 2013 at 9:12pm | IP Logged | 8  


Could you define the "older work" more precisely? Is there one particular period? If so, which?

I support John Byrne as a Hall of Fame writer probably more than a Hall of Fame artist, myself.

I'm probably in the minority in saying JB's work today is different to the point where he's "not the same." Either as artist or writer. 

Maybe that's the rub: JB didn't consider himself a true artist in what I find nostalgic, the FF stuff, the Alpha Flight, the Hulk blip, and that work was more utilitarian, less concerned with itself as much as telling the story. Particularly when JB was scripting himself, which was the bulk of his success.

As an older man with a keen interest in his art, as with many older writers/musicians/artists, there's a tendency to reflect on what makes art good. This often comes off as "less good" to us, since we were caught up in the original emotion of first contact. The stars aligned, the story and art, or music or prose, impassioned with degrees of youth and deadlines, and reflected in our own youth, ruled the day. Nothing is ever as good as when it was good and you, meaning us, were young.

So it doesn't matter what I find to be the "best" John Byrne art. I think JB was meant to write/draw Marvel Comics' characters; I think every bit of his passion and all his best stories are within that framework. I don't love his non-corporate-owned character stories because I think they lack the Marvel Comics history and richness of potential. 

All you have to do is look at the commissions, and you'll find the John Byrne Hall of Fame artist. Because the stories he is forced to keep to himself, now, are just visible, and cogent, beneath the image of Batman or the FF or the Hulk.

It should be noted, the Marvel Comics that did inspire JB is as dead as Abe Lincoln. If it existed, even marginally, in a coherent, non-a**hole form, as JB has pointed out, we might get some late-legend eye-blasts to carry aging fans into their graves. 

But given the circumstances at the Big Two, I don't see JB or Erik Larsen producing any viable work on those classic characters at any point in the future. 


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Jodi Moisan
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Posted: 23 March 2013 at 9:14pm | IP Logged | 9  

I have mentioned before how I received a couple of crude emails labeling JB as a racist, and strongly suggesting that it would be stupid of me to continue to "support" someone like him. I guess that's part of the risk that goes along with signing up and posting with your real name. Of course, it's nothing compared to what Jodi has experienced.

[edited to change "I" to "it"...]


__________________________________

Yes, I have also received "hate" mail from JB detractors. People need
to find more to do with their time. I do not wish it on anyone!


___________________________________

I am so sorry you guys are part of the "When Cowards Attack Club" .  I am glad you guys didn't listen, you guys add so much enjoyment to the forum.  Hell Nathan got some, I can't think of a nicer guy than Nathan.
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Robert White
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Posted: 23 March 2013 at 10:07pm | IP Logged | 10  

I think it's disgusting that someone did that to you, Jodi. I'd be more than willing to give any of the scumbags that sent you those messages my home address if they'd like. Any takers? 

As far as JB's current work, I've a growing appreciating for the changes. The art and storytelling are great, but from my "eye" the work is intentionally more stylized and "cartoony" in its looseness compare to the more "realistic" style he used during his years on X-Men, FF, Superman, etc. I'm not sure when this stylistic change occurred, but the Namor era seems to me to be one of the last times JB drew that way. 

That being said, I think a lot of this perception has to do with the fact that JB hasn't worked on top Marvel characters in a long time, since Hidden Years, really. Most of us, for all he's done, consider JB a Marvel guy at heart. When I "really" look at stuff like Generations, Batman/Captain America, Cold War, etc, there are many aspects of the art that are superior to even his best Marvel stuff. I suppose you always have to lose certain aspects of old styles to gain newer ones as an artist. 

This, of course, is simply my layman viewpoint as a long-time fan. 
 
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John Byrne
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Posted: 24 March 2013 at 5:06am | IP Logged | 11  

The art and storytelling are great, but from my "eye" the work is intentionally more stylized and "cartoony" in its looseness compare to the more "realistic" style he used during his years on X-Men, FF, Superman, etc.

••

I cannot for the life of me imagine WHAT you are looking at!!

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Robert White
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Posted: 24 March 2013 at 5:16am | IP Logged | 12  

That's the best way I can describe it. The characters seem slightly more exaggerated than your style in the 80's, but less stiff.  
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