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Jodi Moisan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 6832
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| Posted: 22 March 2013 at 8:34am | IP Logged | 1
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Joe, you can't have one rule for some and a different rule for others. It's
either okay to do something or it's not, good intentions notwithstanding .
Intent is very important and that is what is in play here, if that was not the case, rape and making love is all the same thing , it is all intercourse. But we all know intent is very important in judging the motives behind an action by someone.
Not trying to bend your words in any way. Just asking the question for clarification.
The problem with your non answer above I have is that all art talent being subjective, equal and superior talent are in the eyes of the beholder.
Hmmm reading between the lines I would say there is an agenda here.
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Jodi Moisan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
Location: United States
Posts: 6832
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| Posted: 22 March 2013 at 8:41am | IP Logged | 2
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I LOVED Popeye growing up, he actually influenced my love of spinach, that is a great looking cover!!!
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Dave Jasinski
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 July 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 59
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| Posted: 22 March 2013 at 8:43am | IP Logged | 3
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The Popeye example was a great point! I really can't imagine Larson pulling that off in any way that wouldn't look like a Savage-Dragon-Popeye hybrid!Look at the mess he made of Spiderman! There is a saying that you have to LEARN the rules before you can break them and find your own unique style. Too many of the Image era "artists" skipped over the learning the rules part and went straight to finding a unique style.
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Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
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| Posted: 22 March 2013 at 8:46am | IP Logged | 4
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Stephen King's comment about Stephenie Meyer strikes me more as flat-out criticism. I see that differently from King "correcting" how Meyer put together a sentence. Roger Ebert might not like a Martin Scorsese film but it's unlikely that his review would suggest how a scene *should* have been shot.
I don't care much for Erik Larsen's work but I'm not an artist so I couldn't begin to "correct" his work.
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Jesus Garcia
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 April 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 2414
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| Posted: 22 March 2013 at 8:46am | IP Logged | 5
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I was under the impression that JB couldn't draw in what Neal Adams calls "The Big Foot" style -- a cartoony approach to drawing characters in deliberate, broad deviation from photo-realism.
After seeing that Popeye cover, my impression is rectified: John has nailed that style. Impressive.
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Charles Valderrama
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4830
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| Posted: 22 March 2013 at 8:58am | IP Logged | 6
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Never doubted that JB could nail that style.... Heck, he started his career sorta in that cartoony style!!! What does impress me is that JB draws every character ON-MODEL. He's not trying to do the 'John Byrne' version of a character... Marvel, DC, or otherwise; he's just trying to do JUSTICE to that character/s.
THAT'S a lost mentality among artists today.
-C!
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 22 March 2013 at 9:09am | IP Logged | 7
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I honestly do not understand the artists who take on an established character and do it "their way". Sure, there are artistic differences. And, sure, occasionally an artist will actually be hired to bring his/her "look" to a character (as I was with Superman, for instance). But when it's just a monthly gig, not a reboot, not a reinvention, not any of the terms we have introduced to the industry of late -- well, what's the point?I have been most impressed over the years by artists who step into a new gig and, without sacrificing their own distinctive styles, do so more or less seamlessly. Neal Adams on Batman, for instance. Altho Neal eventually was allowed to make his powerful presence felt, and to steer the characters into different directions artistically, when he first arrived he drew on model. Altho there there was no mistaking his style for that of Carmine Infantino, for instance, there was also no question that they were both drawing the same character. That they were both, essentially, working from the same "live model". This used to be REQUIRED in comics, back before they turned into glorified fanzines.
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James Howell
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Joined: 23 September 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 363
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| Posted: 22 March 2013 at 9:15am | IP Logged | 8
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There are artists who have good fundamentals, but lack the ability to tell a story effectively, and there are others who are good storytellers, but aren't the best draftsman. The best artists can do both. Sometimes a poorly made movie can keep you engaged, while a well made, and well shot film can be bogged down with repetitive expository dialogue, and poor editing (I'm looking at you, Dark Knight Rises). I think people confuse liking something, with it being well made. I guess I'm just not in the camp of those who think if a work is popular, that means it is quality work. Variety is the spice of life. I like a lot of bad films, but don't think they should win oscars cause I like them. I would never tell anyone what to like, but people in the know of a certain skill can discern what's well made and what isn't. But that's not what Larsen is doing. Larsen is falling prey to something a lot of people do online. And that is, behaving like a jerk to get attention.
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Jovi Neri
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 October 2012
Location: Philippines
Posts: 119
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| Posted: 22 March 2013 at 11:57am | IP Logged | 9
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This might go off topic, but I remember JB inking Ross Andru's pencil in Action Comics 599 which featured the Metal Men. I remember JB's style really being prominent and almost overpowering in some instances, and the end result did not show a lot of Andru left. JB, do you remember inking this issue? Was this your only occasion to ink the great Ross Andru?
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Eric Smearman
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Joined: 02 September 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 5823
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| Posted: 22 March 2013 at 12:36pm | IP Logged | 10
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@Jovi: With respect, I completely disagree with your assessment of
JB's inks in ACTION #599. I thought the finished product looked very
much like Ross Andru inked by John Byrne.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
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| Posted: 22 March 2013 at 12:48pm | IP Logged | 11
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This might go off topic, but I remember JB inking Ross Andru's pencil in Action Comics 599 which featured the Metal Men. I remember JB's style really being prominent and almost overpowering in some instances, and the end result did not show a lot of Andru left. JB, do you remember inking this issue? Was this your only occasion to ink the great Ross Andru?++ @Jovi: With respect, I completely disagree with your assessment of JB's inks in ACTION #599. I thought the finished product looked very much like Ross Andru inked by John Byrne. •• I did my best to be as faithful as possible to Ross' pencils on that issue. That was, after all, kind of the point of getting him to do the book!
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Donald Miller
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Joined: 03 February 2005
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Posts: 3601
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| Posted: 22 March 2013 at 12:50pm | IP Logged | 12
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JB said:
That's the central core of this whole thread, really. As already noted,
Larsen seems to have difficulty distinguishing between "I don't LIKE
this" and "This is WRONG."
That is also the critical difference in JB's alterations of other artists in the past. He made changes with respect, showing how he might have approached it no saying the original was WRONG.
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Topic Closed)
