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Joe Zhang Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 12857
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Posted: 22 March 2013 at 6:52am | IP Logged | 1
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"art talent being subjective"
====================
Is this a given? The quality of art is entirely a subjective matter? If this is true, then art is merely an exercise in marketing.
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Matt Reed Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004 Posts: 35941
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Posted: 22 March 2013 at 6:53am | IP Logged | 2
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Rob Fleming wrote:
Then given your own definition of peer(equal or superior talent) how would you answer the question? |
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John has already been asked that question by Luke. He has also said that when Luke responds with his definition of "peer", he'll answer it. Chill and wait for that answer.
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Robert White Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 4560
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Posted: 22 March 2013 at 6:54am | IP Logged | 3
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"All art is subjective" is a defense mechanism devised to combat elitism and to defend those with questionable taste. I agree that it is tired.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133317
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Posted: 22 March 2013 at 6:55am | IP Logged | 4
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Then given your own definition of peer(equal or superior talent) how would you answer the question?•• In just the way I did in my post.
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Michael Penn Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 12708
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Posted: 22 March 2013 at 7:09am | IP Logged | 5
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But you didn't give an "honest" answer to this "honest" question because what you said doesn't reveal you to be an awful egomaniacal hypocrite.
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Luke Smyth Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: Ireland Posts: 791
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Posted: 22 March 2013 at 7:10am | IP Logged | 6
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JB, thanks for the reply. Your definition of "peer" would be the same as mine. I was wrong to use "peer" as that personalizes the question and I'm trying to stay away from personalities.
How about replacing peer with working professional comicbook artist?
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James Howell Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 23 September 2012 Location: United States Posts: 363
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Posted: 22 March 2013 at 7:42am | IP Logged | 7
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You know how you can tell the difference between style and substance in comic book superhero art? Whether the illustrator can do other genres in comics, besides superheroes. Can you imagine Larsen doing a western comic like John Severin? Or a period piece like Milo Manara? Or war comics like Joe Kubert? Or a sword and sorcery epic, like John Buscema? These giants in the field of sequential art (including Byrne, Adams, Kirby, etc) all have strong fundamentals in layout, composition, anatomy, perspective, lighting, foreshortening, depth, etc., that they can adapt to any story they wish to tell visually. These aspects of art are real and quantifiable. Quality in comic book art IS NOT SUBJECTIVE.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133317
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Posted: 22 March 2013 at 7:51am | IP Logged | 8
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How about replacing peer with working professional comicbook artist?•• Then it becomes about context. Any artist can look at any other artist's work and think Hmm, I would have done that differently. Artists can even spot fundamental errors in the work of others (and hopefully themselves!!). Problems arise when some of these artists assume a position that allows them to "correct" the work of the other artist when there is not, in fact, an error to be corrected. Such as Larsen's apparent fixation on imaginary "tangents" in my work, or his demonstrating how he would have rendered a particular sequence (as with the GENERATIONS spread) but presents this as a "correction" of my work.
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Tim O Neill Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 10937
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Posted: 22 March 2013 at 7:56am | IP Logged | 9
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"You know how you can tell the difference between style and substance in comic book superhero art? Whether the illustrator can do other genres in comics, besides superheroes."
*****
A reminder for those not following the "New Comics" thread - JB's cover to the second "Popeye" trade paperback is in stores this week:
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133317
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Posted: 22 March 2013 at 7:58am | IP Logged | 10
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Quality in comic book art IS NOT SUBJECTIVE.•• In a perfect world, no. In a perfect world there would be a line drawn, and no one whose work fell below that line would be allowed to draw professional comics. Luckily, this is not a perfect world, or I would have been kept out of the industry for DECADES!! Let's talk turkey for a moment. Comic books are very low on the totem, as "ART". For every Joe Kubert there are a dozen hacks. More. And while some fans/readers are discriminating and even educated in the matters of art, most are not. Most respond solely to the "Cool Factor". Which is why there are many who would pick Rob Liefeld over Joe Kubert. Any one with a truly perceptive eye would know that choice was WRONG -- but taste is taste, and, in the end, it's actually a GOOD thing that we don't all have the same taste. After all, how BORING would that be!! William S. Gilbert said it best. . . Don't the day seem lank and long When all goes right and nothing goes wrong And isn't your life extremely flat When you've nothing whatever to grumble at!
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DW Zomberg Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 June 2012 Posts: 444
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Posted: 22 March 2013 at 8:02am | IP Logged | 11
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JB drew Eugene the Jeep!
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Tim O Neill Byrne Robotics Security
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 10937
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Posted: 22 March 2013 at 8:10am | IP Logged | 12
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JB does the best superhero group shots - he captures the nature of the character even by the way they are standing. I was blown away that JB could do the same thing in a cartoon style in the Popeye piece above.
I feel like McFarlane hides his mistakes with a scratchy, crowded look. There's nowhere to hide when drawing Popeye - the artist either nails that line or they don't!
And of course, with IDW, JB has been able to do books in different styles. There's different storytelling happening in COLD WAR than in STAR TREK or TRIO. I'm especially loving the sci-fi of THE HIGH WAYS. The IDW work has shown different titles that show JB's artistic and storytelling range.
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