| Author |
|
Lars Sandmark
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 October 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 3144
|
| Posted: 20 March 2013 at 7:42pm | IP Logged | 1
|
|
|
Let's face it, Larsen has gone way beyond doing an honest critique, he's playing a game.
Anyone who doesn't see that at this point is falling for his 'innocent' schtick. "Who, me?"
Bah, he simply wants attention and notice from his idol, John Byrne.
Erik: "Look at me over here!"
John: "You are a minor annoyance."
Erik: "Yay, he noticed that I exist! Mission accomplished!"
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Nathan Greno
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 9154
|
| Posted: 20 March 2013 at 7:49pm | IP Logged | 2
|
|
|
Jason and Lars, those are some good posts imho
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6426
|
| Posted: 20 March 2013 at 7:52pm | IP Logged | 3
|
|
|
Nathan: "So I guess I disagree with you, Mark. I feel one professional
can publicly critique another without looking unprofessional. "
**
I guess I'm not being understood because I feel the same thing.
But it is extremely easy to seem unprofessional. If you take other pros
to task in your own field, you have to be careful. If you, as a director,
mouth off about football or golf or comic books, you seem like anyone
else. But if you started bad mouthing other directors' work you could
open yourself up to a lot of criticism. It would be easy to come off as
self-inflated or egotistical because you don't look as objective when you
comment on your own field.
But if you are a big enough deal, then your comments can "earn" a bit
of weight. Ellison talking sci-fi or Stephen King talking best-sellers
comes under a different heading than the average pro.
JB criticizing other artists does not happen here a lot, and as your
example shows, JB tends to use tact when he comments on other
artists. I don't know if he thinks of himself as having "earned the right"
to toss around his opinions on comic artists, but he doesn't do it much.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Nathan Greno
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 9154
|
| Posted: 20 March 2013 at 8:09pm | IP Logged | 4
|
|
|
Mark: I guess I'm not being understood because I feel the same thing.
---
Sorry! Long day. I guess I didn't understand what you were saying.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
|
| Posted: 20 March 2013 at 8:23pm | IP Logged | 5
|
|
|
I do have a problem with his technical dissections since I don't feel that he's qualified to do so given his own personal style and what he's exhibited as his own understanding of drawing concepts in his published work.
Would you say that Vince Colletta wouldn't be allowed to point out a perspective error in Wally Wood's work? Or that Ace Frehley couldn't find fault with a Jimi Hendrix track? Or that Keanu Reeves couldn't find fault with one of Meryl Streep's acting choices?
Erik Larsen knows that he has limitations, and like any artist, he's probably well aware of whatever weaknesses he has, whether he's able to improve on them or not. I'd bet that even comics' favorite whipping boy Rob Liefeld knows what his weaknesses are, and that he's probably deliberately kept some of them as a stylistic choice, since his diehard fans are going to buy whatever he puts out as long as it looks like Rob Liefeld art. I don't think that disqualifies either of them from being able to give informed criticism of other artists. There are great editors who can't draw a lick who know the craft of comics inside and out, and and I certainly trust their opinions if they say that something doesn't work for them on any given page.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
| |
Jesus Garcia
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 10 April 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 2414
|
| Posted: 20 March 2013 at 8:25pm | IP Logged | 6
|
|
|
Isaac Asimov once brought this little message to his readers' attention: "A critic is like a eunuch in a harem. He sees what's being done and he criticizes the technique, but he can't do it himself." Personally, I'm often appaled at how much critiquing people do. I keep thinking that if I were lucky enough to earn a living in this field, I would focus on what I'm doing and let the people who don't like my stuff pave their way to a boiling hell.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Wilson Mui
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 27 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4552
|
| Posted: 20 March 2013 at 9:43pm | IP Logged | 7
|
|
|
I agree with Paul that it is about Larsen's intent.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Brian Lewis
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 August 2012
Posts: 476
|
| Posted: 20 March 2013 at 10:36pm | IP Logged | 8
|
|
|
"I remember when Harlan Ellison unleashed his wrath upon STAR WARS. Not a good word to say about it. I didn't agree, of course, but Harlan had certainly EARNED THE RIGHT to express his opinion."
When Star Wars came out, Ellison had been in the business for 20 years.
At the beginning of this thread, Larson had been in the business for 25 years. During that time he has worked continuously. His series, Savage Dragon, has run for 20 years. He has run a successful comic company. He has acted as publisher. He's had about every job in the industry.So I guess I'm not certain what else someone has to do to EARN THE RIGHT to express his or her opinion. I dare anyone in here to find a coworker that has been in their job for 25 years and point out to them that they have yet to EARN THE RIGHT to express their opinion.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Mark Haslett
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 6426
|
| Posted: 20 March 2013 at 10:37pm | IP Logged | 9
|
|
|
Andrew:"Or that Keanu Reeves couldn't find fault with one of Meryl
Streep's acting choices? ..."
***
Finally an apt comparison. Two pros. Worlds apart. Larsen and Neal
Adams have a similar gulf between them.
Keanu Reeves may not like Streep's choices now and then. I wonder
what form of common sense has prevented him from doing a twitter-
feed about these objections posted along with his suggestions for
fixes?
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
| |
Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
|
| Posted: 20 March 2013 at 10:50pm | IP Logged | 10
|
|
|
I'd argue that Keanu knows his limitations and works within his abilities, choosing roles that suit his talents. He knows his craft and has decades of experience. Meryl Streep pushes more boundaries, takes more risks, and is successful at taking on new and challenging roles more often than not, but that doesn't mean she nails her performance every single time (or, in this case, that her audience feels she does).
Erik Larsen does the best Savage Dragon comic he can do, and possibly the best that anybody's going to do. He knows his craft, he works mostly within his comfort zone, and he's been working as a pro since the 1980s. If he hasn't picked up enough knowledge to offer critiques of other comics creators by this point in his career, then the rest of us have no business finding fault with his work, do we? I just can't wrap my head around that notion.
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
| |
Jeffery Tolbird
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 November 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 178
|
| Posted: 20 March 2013 at 11:53pm | IP Logged | 11
|
|
|
I know I'm biased towards JB but comparing his "fixes" to Erik Larsons
seems unfair. JBs occurred naturally in a forum about comics. Larson
set up a section in Facebook and called it "playing GOD"!!! intent is
more important in the eyes of the law!
John Byrne=misdemeanor
Erik Larson=Felony!
Ps. As a self proclaimed "package" expert, I hate to inform JB that he
may have erased the lower ribcage of Neal Adams superman....at least
it is NOT where I would place a package! IMO ! Now having said that,
I've never seen krytonian "package" up close, so I could be wrong!
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
| |
David Miller
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 3093
|
| Posted: 20 March 2013 at 11:55pm | IP Logged | 12
|
|
|
Ironically, as we speak Keanu Reeves is videotaping "improvements" on classic scenes by the likes of Olivier, Brando, and DeNiro (who he really seems to have it out for) and posting them on his Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Keanu-Charles-Reeves/34660700 897
|
| Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
| |
Topic Closed)
