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Topic: Uhmmm. . . . ? (Now with FREE Art Lessons from Erik Larsen!) (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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David Miller
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Posted: 20 March 2013 at 3:24pm | IP Logged | 1  

Agree with Larsen or no, like his work or not, he has a thirty-odd year career (as long as Harlan Ellison's when he dared criticize Star Wars), hundreds of comics under his belt, and co-founded one of the currently most successful mainstream publishers. He'd be qualified to instruct at art college, so I think he's within critical bounds to talk shit on his Facebook page. Yeah, his work sucks, but so does most of Harlan Ellison's. So does most of everyone's. I know I'm not technically qualified to dislike Ellison's work, but John Gardner also hated it, and Ellison himself agreed Gardner was qualified.


Edited by David Miller on 20 March 2013 at 3:30pm
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Wilson Mui
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Posted: 20 March 2013 at 3:25pm | IP Logged | 2  

Brian Lewis said "[Larsen] didn't imply it, others here decided to infer it."

========

If you know the history between the two, you would understand what Larsen is saying.

1) Larsen has said something similar on his own forum.  Responding to a comment about one of JB's Hulk commissions, Larsen said JB doesn't "give a shit" about tangents because he does not want to redraw anything.

2) In another instance, Larsen said he does not like JB as a human being.  (When asked why, he said it was upset that JB didn't answer his questions properly when he was a member of this forum.)

Edited by Wilson Mui on 20 March 2013 at 3:39pm
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Frank Gurstelle
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Posted: 20 March 2013 at 3:32pm | IP Logged | 3  


 QUOTE:
Larsen tries to transact using the same coin, but he's not fit for it by either his work or his rep for ragging on the work of his betters.

That's just your opinion, and you sir, do not have the coin to make that transaction.

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Robbie Parry
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Posted: 20 March 2013 at 3:50pm | IP Logged | 4  

In reply to Nathan, I think there's a difference between offering your
unsolicited opinion and couching your opinion in an aura of "authority"
because of your position.

***

I would agree with what Mark has said.

I do feel that critiquing films in the movie sub-forum is the online equivalent of people sitting in a pub and having a chat about movies. I've done that in pubs and I've done it here. It's just my opinion.

However, I feel that what Larsen is doing is not comparable with critiquing films. If he were just criticizing the art on his website/forum, then he's entitled to his opinion, but what he is doing seems a lot of effort and unnecessary, in my view.
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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 20 March 2013 at 3:57pm | IP Logged | 5  

David : Agree with Larsen or no, like his work or not, he has a thirty-odd
year career (as long as Harlan Ellison's when he dared criticize Star
Wars), hundreds of comics under his belt, and co-founded one of the
currently most successful mainstream publishers. He'd be qualified to
instruct at art college, so I think he's within critical bounds to talk shit on
his Facebook page. Yeah, his work sucks, but so does most of Harlan
Ellison's. So does most of everyone's. I know I'm not technically
qualified to dislike Ellison's work, but John Gardner also hated it, and
Ellison himself agreed Gardner was qualified.

***
what?

Everyone's technically qualified to dislike anything they want.

Being a towering figure in your field (like Stephen King or Harlen
Ellison) does not come automatically with spending years on the job.
There's a difference between the authority of an art instructor and Neal
Adams when it comes to comic book art.

Edited by Mark Haslett on 20 March 2013 at 3:58pm
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Andrew W. Farago
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Posted: 20 March 2013 at 4:05pm | IP Logged | 6  

If he were just criticizing the art on his website/forum, then he's entitled to his opinion, but what he is doing seems a lot of effort and unnecessary, in my view.

Isn't that what he did?  He posted these on his own Facebook page, mostly for the benefit of his own friends and fans.  Although I suppose nothing is really private online.  There have been brief periods where the JBF has gone members-only, and people still leaked stuff to Bleeding Cool or Twitter or other places in an attempt to stir up controversy (often where there really wasn't any).
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Mark Haslett
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Posted: 20 March 2013 at 4:09pm | IP Logged | 7  

Frank: " That's just your opinion, and you sir, do not have the coin to
make that transaction."

**

I don't have the coin of my own opinion?
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Robert White
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Posted: 20 March 2013 at 4:10pm | IP Logged | 8  

Sure, technically, JB did the same thing with the Jim Lee and Neal Adams art, but in both cases the intent was openly expressed as not being snarky or hostile, and in Adams case, extremely apologetic on the onset. Also, once again, all three artists are actually talented and have much more similar styles than when compared to Larsen. 

And, obviously, anyone is "qualified" to like or dislike anything they want. The point is that few are qualified to make technical critiques in specific, minute detail. Most critics, even some prominent ones, aren't qualified to judge technicalities. 
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Paul Greer
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Posted: 20 March 2013 at 4:10pm | IP Logged | 9  

Side rant about internet posting and elaborate off Joseph. If you are going to post in a thread and offer your insight, please read the thread! Trevor Phillip comes into this thread and starts talking about a Jim Lee piece that JB critiqued but doesn't know where to find it. Trevor if you had even read one other page than the current one you would have found it. Along with JB's comments about it. Page 11 of a 12 page thread. It is frustrating that more people are worried about getting their two cents in than reading or evaluating the comments of others first.
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Matthew Wilkie
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Posted: 20 March 2013 at 4:54pm | IP Logged | 10  

He's certainly weighed in with suggestions as to what he might have done differently, especially when he and Siskel/Roeper were on-camera and having conversations about the films they were reviewing. They'd talk about characters who were unsympathetic or not fully developed, confusing or unnecessary scenes, casting decisions that didn't seem to work... Ebert wouldn't have the time nor inclination to re-edit films to his liking, I'm sure, but Erik's apparently got enough time in any given day to dick around on the Internet, and it's much faster to slap something together in photoshop than to re-cut a film without access to multiple camera angles and raw footage.

* * *

Andrew, I think you make some interesting points here.  I don't know Ebert's style particularly well, being UK-based, and I accept that perhaps his style is further reaching than reviewers that I am familiar with.  And clearly it is easier to rework artwork than it is a feature film.  But surely there is a fundamental difference: Ebert is talking about films that have presumably just been released that actively invite (hopefully favourable) reviews and critiques.  That's how it works.  That is very different to a artist taking material from the past and, instead of simply talking about it, actively changing it, providing a commentary rubbishing the original work.  There seems to be a clear intent here that is different from the film reviewer, Ebert included with his particular analysis.

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James Howell
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Posted: 20 March 2013 at 4:55pm | IP Logged | 11  

When does critiquing become a personal attack? Is this a sign of fan editing run amok? Who's ego is being served by this kind of unsoliticed  "help"? Nit-picking has now replaced creating new works, as the pastime of the elderly fanboy. Deconstruct EVERYTHING, but create NOTHING.
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Nathan Greno
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Posted: 20 March 2013 at 5:33pm | IP Logged | 12  

Wilson: Nathan, when Larsen implies that JB does not give a damn about his work, shouldn't JB take it personally?  I know I would.

---

I guess so... I don't think I've said anything against that.

I just don't believe anyone needs to EARN THE RIGHT to express opinion. As I mentioned above, the movie threads are filled with opinions from people that have never worked on a film. Byrne has never worked on a film (that I know of), yet he critiques/criticizes films all the time in the movie threads. I don't think Byrne needs to EARN THE RIGHT to critique/criticize films. I also don't think people need to EARN THE RIGHT to critique/criticize Byrne's work.

HOWEVER...

When critiquing/criticizing a work of art, one shouldn't get "personal". 

Keep it about the work.



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