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Jose Sarduy Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 30 December 2011 Location: United States Posts: 45
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Posted: 20 March 2013 at 11:15am | IP Logged | 1
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As an artist myself I welcome constructive critiques from other students and teachers, but I would never criticize my teachers, well, at least not publicly.John has said before he doesn't mind constructive criticism, but Erik seems to take it to the next level, he makes it personal. I think some fans are up in arms because Erik is the last person to correct John on human anatomy.
Out of all of artists that have come before and after John, why pick on his art and composition time and time again to deface? Seems childish to me.
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Greg Woronchak Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 September 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 1631
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Posted: 20 March 2013 at 11:20am | IP Logged | 2
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Considering the tight deadlines (moreso in the pre-'roses' era), it doesn't surprise me (or bother me, as a consumer) if any pro makes a rare 'mistake'.
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Nathan Greno Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 9154
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Posted: 20 March 2013 at 11:36am | IP Logged | 3
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Greg: Considering the tight deadlines (moreso in the pre-'roses' era), it doesn't surprise me (or bother me, as a consumer) if any pro makes a rare 'mistake'.
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I agree. When you work as a professional artist, a big part of the job is hitting deadlines. You do the best job you can in the time you're given. There will be artistic mistakes -- there will be criticism of the completed work.
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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 20 March 2013 at 11:51am | IP Logged | 4
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I agree that Larsen makes it sound personal. I think what he is doing is wrong, anyway, but if it didn't sound so personal, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. His behaviour makes it sound like he's got an axe to grind.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133317
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Posted: 20 March 2013 at 11:53am | IP Logged | 5
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Considering the tight deadlines (moreso in the pre-'roses' era), it doesn't surprise me (or bother me, as a consumer) if any pro makes a rare 'mistake'.•• Before the coming of the rose-growers, a piece of advice I was given many a time, in different forms, by the Old Pros was "Get it right the next time." The idea here is that nothing is really gained by laboring over something if it seems not to be working. For one thing, 99.99999% of the readers won't know it's not what the artist intended, and for another, work that is labored over tends to look. . . labored over. Better to move on and try to avoid the mistake next time. (The rose-growers, of course, have created an illusion among gullible fans. The idea that a book is months late BECAUSE THAT TIME WAS USED IN WORKING ON IT, when the reality, in most cases, is that the time was used in working on just about ANYTHING else. There was one artist who was notoriously slow even before the rose-growers arrived. When asked at a con why the latest issue of his book was later, I would say "You know those Slurpie cups/posters/fill-ins on other books he's been doing? Those are all pages of his own book that didn't get drawn.")
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Andrew W. Farago Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005 Location: United States Posts: 4079
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Posted: 20 March 2013 at 11:54am | IP Logged | 6
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Anyone remember back in 2003 when Erik Larsen was criticizing the artwork of George Perez, saying Perez had problems with anatomy and perspective and saying he was overrated? Seriously.
Comicon.com message boards, right? Back when they were pretty active, and before fans had chased all of the creators away. The main thing I remember Erik saying about Perez's artwork is that he felt George was going through a very detail-heavy period in his artwork, rendering every last hair follicle, tooth, wrinkle, etc. That, at least, came off more as a personal preference, like a person saying that they preferred Kirby with Colletta to Kirby with Royer.
People dumped on him then for criticizing Perez, but that was ten years ago, so I don't remember all of the details. And opinions can certainly change over the course of ten years, can't they?
John Byrne, George Perez, and Neal - FRIGGIN' - Adams!!!!These are the artists that Larsen thinks he is superior to, enough to criticize them regularly? Erik's latest posts are obviously in response to this thread, and are a pretty blatant attempt to stir things up over here.
I don't think Erik would claim that he's a superior artist to JB, Perez and Adams, anymore than Roger Ebert thinks that he's a better filmmaker than Martin Scorsese if he's criticizing one of his films, or that Dave Marsh thinks he's a better musician than Bruce Springsteen if he's critical of one of his albums, or suggests that The Boss might have improved one of his songs if he'd tackled the production differently. I don't think I'm a better cook than the trained expert at my favorite restaurant if I think he put too much salt on the green beans, and I don't think I'm a better painter than Alex Ross if I think one of his compositions could be improved with a few little tweaks.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133317
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Posted: 20 March 2013 at 11:54am | IP Logged | 7
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I agree that Larsen makes it sound personal. I think what he is doing is wrong, anyway, but if it didn't sound so personal, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. His behaviour makes it sound like he's got an axe to grind.•• Been going on FAR too long for it to be anything but a personal grudge.
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Robbie Parry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 June 2007 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 12186
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Posted: 20 March 2013 at 11:55am | IP Logged | 8
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(The rose-growers, of course, have created an illusion among gullible
fans. The idea that a book is months late BECAUSE THAT TIME WAS USED IN
WORKING ON IT...
***
The entire concept of rose-growing is, in my view, offensive to people like you, Mr. Byrne, and others like Jack Kirby. All the issues of FF that Kirby or yourself drew were GOOD! VERY GOOD! Absolutely nothing could have been gained from "growing roses".
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Ronald Joseph Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 April 2011 Location: United States Posts: 1784
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Posted: 20 March 2013 at 11:57am | IP Logged | 9
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I agree that Larsen makes it sound personal. I think what he is doing is wrong, anyway, but if it didn't sound so personal, I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. His behaviour makes it sound like he's got an axe to grind. I can just picture him sitting in his studio, unshaven, in his Youngblood t-shirt, boxer shorts, and socks & sandals, drinking a Super Big Gulp Moutnain Dew, poring through his once-revered collection of vintage JB books from the 70s and 80s, looking for anything and everything he can use to "fix" and make himself feel superior. All the while, his wife and kids are banging away at the door, wondering when The Savage Daddy is going to come out and rejoin the family. I smell a new Reality TV series, "Playing God With Erik Larsen." Check your local cable stations for the debut.
Edited by Ronald Joseph on 20 March 2013 at 11:58am
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Dave Jasinski Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 July 2006 Location: United States Posts: 59
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Posted: 20 March 2013 at 12:08pm | IP Logged | 10
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I was reading Larson's Twitter site this morning, and I believe he made the analogy that even Stephan King critiqued Harry Potter.I don't remember if Larson was the one who said it or one of his fans and I'm really not very motivated to go back there and look.
Sorry. If John Byrne = J.K. Rowling in this analogy, which I have no problem with, Erik Larson is NOWHERE CLOSE to Stephen King. He'd be some marginally successful author who has had steady work but nowhere near a Stephen King.
Kind of brings to mind the 1988 VP debate with Dan Quayle:
(paraphrasing badly) "Erik, I knew Stephen King. Stephen King was a friend of mine. Erik, you're no Stephen King!"
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133317
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Posted: 20 March 2013 at 12:08pm | IP Logged | 11
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The entire concept of rose-growing is, in my view, offensive to people like you, Mr. Byrne, and others like Jack Kirby. All the issues of FF that Kirby or yourself drew were GOOD! VERY GOOD! Absolutely nothing could have been gained from "growing roses".•• It gives me a warm and cuddly feeling, every time I remember McFarlane describing how he could "shit out a book in a month" if he HAD to, but he was "growing roses". Ah, such respect for what has gone before! I'm kvelling!
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133317
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Posted: 20 March 2013 at 12:12pm | IP Logged | 12
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I was reading Larson's Twitter site this morning, and I believe he made the analogy that even Stephan King critiqued Harry Potter.•• If he did, he had EARNED THE RIGHT to do so. I remember when Harlan Ellison unleashed his wrath upon STAR WARS. Not a good word to say about it. I didn't agree, of course, but Harlan had certainly EARNED THE RIGHT to express his opinion. In Larsen's case, it's akin to something Aaron Sorkin said about the internet having given everybody "a turn at the microphone", but adding that not everybody has EARNED a turn at the microphone.
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