Author |
|
Matt Hawes Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 16499
|
Posted: 20 March 2013 at 8:30am | IP Logged | 1
|
|
|
Joie Simmons wrote:
...Can't wait to see him go and re-draw some Tex Avery. That's a guy who sure needed to know how to make his stuff more realistic and grounded... |
|
|
Well, see, here's the rub: As I recall in the debate over George Perez's art years ago, Larsen defended his own work on its' lack of proper anatomy, and the like, because he was a "stylistic" artist. He's allowed to draw a huge, enormous chest and forearms atop pencil-thin, tiny little legs on his Savage Dragon in his mind because of his style, so it's not fair game in his mind to judge him in the way he judges the work of others. Seriously, his defense was along those lines!
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
|
|
Matt Hawes Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 16499
|
Posted: 20 March 2013 at 8:33am | IP Logged | 2
|
|
|
Drawings by Larsen like the above always make me cringe. Even as "forced perspective" it doesn't work. It just looks wrong.
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
|
|
Greg Woronchak Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 September 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 1631
|
Posted: 20 March 2013 at 8:37am | IP Logged | 3
|
|
|
These are the artists that Larsen thinks he is superior to, enough to criticize them regularly?
I doubt it's a 'superiority complex'; his logic seems to be: 'showing mistakes has been done forever, and helps young artists learn'.
Speaking for myself, I'd have to have respect for the 'teacher' who'd critique my stuff in the first place!
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
|
Matt Hawes Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 16499
|
Posted: 20 March 2013 at 8:45am | IP Logged | 4
|
|
|
But, Greg, I don't believe that he's showing mistakes to help young artists learn. If that were the case, and if his ego could handle it, he could use examples in his own history of work where he made mistakes to show how he's improved and how an artist does it correctly. He is not doing these critiques of JB's work to help young artists, he is doing it to take the piss out of JB. That should be obvious to anyone at this point.
Edited by Matt Hawes on 20 March 2013 at 8:54am
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
|
|
Joie Simmons Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 July 2007 Location: United States Posts: 288
|
Posted: 20 March 2013 at 8:48am | IP Logged | 5
|
|
|
If he's teaching, he's doing it wrong. I understand he's a big JB fan, but all he's showing is what he thinks is "wrong."
A teacher here wouldn't fix the mistakes. A teacher in this kind of setting would take the one image he thinks is wrong and find a different image from a different book where he did it "right". If this were me, I would have taken that tangent Thing panel (and I don't see anything wrong with it) and scanned all the JB art and found something similar where there is no problem with the tangent.
Not so much "right and wrong" but "this way or that way" It all kind of boils down to a perception of composition.
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
|
Ronald Joseph Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 18 April 2011 Location: United States Posts: 1784
|
Posted: 20 March 2013 at 9:15am | IP Logged | 6
|
|
|
These are the artists that Larsen thinks he is superior to, enough to criticize them regularly? No. These are the artists that he knows he's inferior to. And it kills him. But rather than improve himself, he must tear them down (JB more than the others, it seems). It's nothing more than "hero worship - obsession - kill your idols." Along with a hearty dose of arrested development.
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
|
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133317
|
Posted: 20 March 2013 at 9:19am | IP Logged | 7
|
|
|
All artist make mistakes. Some more than others. And up and coming artists can, indeed, learn from the mistakes of others. I've often said I find BAD artists almost as much an influence on my work as GOOD ones, since I strive NOT to do what the BAD artists do.Thing is, there is nothing to be gained from singling out occasional mistakes a particular artist makes. Once in a thousand drawings, Joe Shmoe gets his anatomy wrong, or screws up a perspective shot, or, yes, creates an inadvertent tangent. But these will most likely be errors that are specific to a particular drawing. Doesn't help a newcomer to be shown something wrong in a picture s/he is not likely ever to be called upon the duplicate. And, as noted, it helps the original artist not at all, unless the one pointing out the mistake has a time machine he's willing to lend. Those who have been around this Forum for any length of time know that I am quick to point out the flaws in my own early work. But when I do so, it is general flaws, like a former tendency to have chunks of rubble slant to the right, because I am right handed. Here I can offer sage council, cautioning young artists to beware of this kind of tendency in their own work. But it does little good for me to point out an instance where I drew Captain America's nose wrong. Much more instructive to point out the places I drew it right! And, of course, instruction is ALWAYS more helpful when an artist is using his own work as the example, whether it's of good or bad. No agenda hidden in the crit, there. I'd invite Larsen to pull out his own stuff from a similar vintage to the work of mine he has problems with. Let's see a really HONEST "blue pencil" applied there!
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
|
Joie Simmons Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 31 July 2007 Location: United States Posts: 288
|
Posted: 20 March 2013 at 9:32am | IP Logged | 8
|
|
|
Yeah. He shouldn't be "fixing" anything, he should show a similar panel of his own as an example of how he would have done it, and leave the opinion of which one is good or bad to the readers.
Like that back-broken Spider-Man image could be his "right way" of rendering a classic Ditko or Romita cover.
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
|
Chris Abel Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 February 2005 Location: United States Posts: 603
|
Posted: 20 March 2013 at 10:19am | IP Logged | 9
|
|
|
Why the vitriol for Larsen doing something Byrne has done as well?
Byrne "fixing" Jim Lee
Byrne "fixing" Neal Adams
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
|
|
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133317
|
Posted: 20 March 2013 at 10:25am | IP Logged | 10
|
|
|
"Fixing"? No.As I recall, the Jim Lee piece I used to point out something it took me a long time to fix in my own work -- and that was the way cityscapes seemed often to be composed of buildings that were all the same height. In the case of Neal's piece, again, I recall the point was to show how the first figure appears to be arcing over and down, while the second is flying straight. Now, find us several dozen others, to bring me up to Larsen's "score".
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
|
Nathan Greno Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 April 2006 Location: United States Posts: 9154
|
Posted: 20 March 2013 at 10:35am | IP Logged | 11
|
|
|
To be fair, this quote was included when Byrne changed Neal's drawing...
"Byrne: I stand prepared to bring down the Wrath of the Gods upon my furry head, but it seems to me that Adams Superman would look much better without the legs and -- ahem - - package showing."
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
|
Marcel Chenier Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 May 2006 Location: United States Posts: 2723
|
Posted: 20 March 2013 at 10:43am | IP Logged | 12
|
|
|
This entire thread has been worth it for this one line: "Yes, that was TRULY mind-boggling. Like a gilded turd finding fault with a Faberge egg!" Other than this, I'd say the thread is also worth the time--but perhaps just about over-done--to utilize Larsen as the poster-boy for JB bashing. I'm confident it's a small, but vocal, audience that would appreciate what Larsen's doing and done in his corrections department but to anyone else, the hatin' for the sake of needing someone to hate is fairly apparent. If we can thank Larsen for anything, it's for making this abundantly clear.
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
|