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Topic: Uhmmm. . . . ? (Now with FREE Art Lessons from Erik Larsen!) (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Jodi Moisan
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Posted: 18 March 2013 at 5:55am | IP Logged | 1  

I'm trying to get a sense of how many people who felt that Larsen was being particularly harsh have been through art critiques themselves before.

Andrew I have been through lots of critiques, 4 full years of college (I didn't count all the outside art classes I took through my high school years), in fact when it is done I feel I am better for it. But it is done in a classroom setting or I went to a prof to have them give me tips, because they have been around longer and know more. This isn't what is being done here. This is about disrespecting someone. The last comment "Not by a long shot" is pretty telling on the motivation behind this. If this was about just wanting to enlighten people that may want to one day work in comics, as someone else posted, there are tons of unknown artists more than willing to have a Larsen critique.


Edited by Jodi Moisan on 18 March 2013 at 8:01am
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Joel Tesch
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Posted: 18 March 2013 at 5:55am | IP Logged | 2  

No, I think it's a matter of our patience for Andrew wearing very thin. I mean he seems to pick his battles very stupidly (i.e. Slott, NuMarvel and others I may have forgotten) and fights them with an even thicker persistence. But I don't he's a stupid person. It tells me that he's probably some kind of aspiring pro trying to curry favor with those idiots.

Joe, you need to tone it down. Calling people idiots and casting aspersions on why people you don't know whatsoever might think what they think and/or ulterior motives is not part of a civil debate or discussion. It has nothing to do with the point at hand and even waters down/weakens your own position.

It is certainly reasonable that Andrew enjoys the work of those creators you cite and he has every right to defend and explain his opinion. You or I won't always agree with it -- and there are times we might think he's dead wrong (as I do in this case). But that doesn't mean it's time to lay decorum to the side or attack his credibility or motives.



Edited by Joel Tesch on 18 March 2013 at 5:57am
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Jodi Moisan
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Posted: 18 March 2013 at 5:59am | IP Logged | 3  

Well said Joel !!!!
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 18 March 2013 at 6:02am | IP Logged | 4  

No, I think it's a matter of our patience for Andrew wearing very thin. I mean he seems to pick his battles very stupidly (i.e. Slott, NuMarvel and others I may have forgotten) and fights them with an even thicker persistence. But I don't he's a stupid person. It tells me that he's probably some kind of aspiring pro trying to curry favor with those idiots.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Really Joe is there a need to toss in the insults? 
Should we only post comments that everyone agrees upon? How does that make for healthy debate?  I'm aware of the instances you cite that Andrew defends but so what. It's fine if you or I disagree with his opinions on NuMarvel or Slott etc. But if he feels as he does and believes in what he says why shouldn't he defend his position?

Disagree with him sure but don't disrespect him. If he is indeed some kind of aspiring pro. and looking to curry favor so be it. How many of us on this forum aren't now or in the past aspire to do what John Byrne does?
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James Howell
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Posted: 18 March 2013 at 6:20am | IP Logged | 5  

I went to H.S Of Art And Design, and you learned very early on the difference between genuine constructive criticism, and self-serving cheap shots to put the "critics" own work over. Quick story... In early 2004, I went back to school to update my skills. One of the classes I took, was a life drawing class, and the 1st assignment was a exercise in negative space. We had to cover a large sheet of Notesketch paper with charcoal, then use the eraser to create the drawing..(mine was a statue of a Roman cardinal, 1/2 view) He gave us a week to finish the product, but I finished mine during the class period. By the time I was finished, everyone was asking me how to help them with their drawings...The teacher HATED me from then on.....I never said a cross word toward him, or try to upstage him, but there it was..


Edited by James Howell on 18 March 2013 at 6:27am
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Craig Markley
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Posted: 18 March 2013 at 6:42am | IP Logged | 6  

I've had disagreements with people on this board but I don't have a list of what they were about.

Edited by Craig Markley on 18 March 2013 at 6:43am
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Paul Greer
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Posted: 18 March 2013 at 6:47am | IP Logged | 7  

Joe Z. maybe you are growing tired of Andrew but please don't use all inclusive terms such as "our". Do not speak for others when saying why you disagree with Andrew. I think Andrew is off base with this but I find him to be a honest person with no personal motivation other than he would like to see two professionals he enjoys get along. 
What most people miss in regards to Larsen is his years of passive-aggressive behavior towards JB. From the beginings of the Name Withheld letter, his Johnny Redbeard to his little cartoon when he was fill in artist on Spider-Woman. Not to mention his boasting on his message board that he was going to come to this message board and put JB in his place. Only to join and play the role of victim. This critique of JB is nothing but a long line of digs at the man. Taken alone it looks innocent enough. Looking at the history it is clear Larsen likes to go out of his way to try and annoy JB.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 18 March 2013 at 7:21am | IP Logged | 8  

The actual "snapshot" of Larsen's comments posted on the previous page point up what's wrong with this whole system. Notice how the first person to post a response asks whether "John Byrne" should not get a "pass", to which Larsen replies that "Byrne isn't infallible".

Setting aside the fact that I have never, ever, under an circumstances CLAIMED to be infallible, the suggesting that I should get a "pass" carries the assumption that Larsen's "corrections" are valid -- and that's how to build an internet meme.

In the eyes of all too many, this becomes not about Larsen puffing himself up and placing himself on a higher plane than lowlies like NEAL ADAMS, it becomes about Larsen sticking well-deserved pins in pompous a'holes like John Byrne. The actually validity of Larsen's comments -- ie, none -- is quickly lost.

This is also how we get tales of "feuds" on the internet. "A" takes an unprovoked shot at "B", and if "B" responds, even in a purely defensive manner, there's a "feud".

All too often it seems as tho the whole point of the internet is to get stories shifted as far from their factual bases as possible, as quickly as possible. As Mark Twain said, "a lie can get halfway 'round the world while the truth is getting its shoes on." Never has this been more true than in this age of the Worldwide Web.

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Brennan Voboril
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Posted: 18 March 2013 at 7:24am | IP Logged | 9  

Paul you've hit the nail on the head in my opinion.  As I've said before, Larsen goes way beyond "this panel doesn't work for this reason" to really nasty personal attacks on JB.  

This is the boon and the curse of the Internet.  Everything someone says is recorded.  For people that are celebrities of sorts it can be painful.  

Larsen acts likes a petulant teenager who was stood up on a date in my opinion.  
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David Ferguson
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Posted: 18 March 2013 at 7:39am | IP Logged | 10  

I think if people here resort to name calling then they are as bad as they think Larsen is in his critique of JB. I don't think either man is perfect but I do think that Larsen is in the wrong in this case.
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Anthony J Lombardi
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Posted: 18 March 2013 at 8:06am | IP Logged | 11  

I wonder why Erik Larsen bothers to correct other people's work. Why take the time to do so? Since he started "Playing God" I don't see this as a casual thing just brought about by innocent exchanges of conversation. This seems motivational. The only motivation I can see is to gather attention to himself. To ruffle some feathers to inflate his sense of ego and to reassure himself of his own self worth. 

And let me add inflating the ego or needing reassurance isn't something that Larsen is alone in needing or doing.


Edited by Anthony J Lombardi on 18 March 2013 at 8:07am
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Stephen Churay
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Posted: 18 March 2013 at 8:30am | IP Logged | 12  

At the very least, Larsen's "critiques" are in poor taste. As JB
mentioned, the problem with tangents are they make they piece look
flat. In relation to JB's Thing piece, I think this was avoided by
variations in line thickness and a touch of separation between the
background and Ben Grimm.

Keep in mind what Andrew does. I'm guessing it would be bad for
business to blast any comicbook artist, even if he wanted to. I'm sure
he also knows some of these folks on a level we don't. And
remember, It's hard to run a comicbook art museum if you can't get art
pages.
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