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Sue Ward
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 June 2012
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 279
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| Posted: 16 March 2013 at 4:58pm | IP Logged | 1
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Yes i think it was one of John Romita's Sr jobs Robert.
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Brennan Voboril
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Joined: 15 January 2011
Posts: 1741
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| Posted: 16 March 2013 at 6:34pm | IP Logged | 2
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"Nothing Erik has said is malicious."
Really? Check Larsen's Twitter feed sometime. He spends an awful lot of time banging on JB and if it was just art criticism it would be different I suppose but it seems personal and obsessive. He reminds me of a jilted fan who felt because he is a fan he had some sort of special relationship with the artist. It is creepy if you ask me.
Even the art criticism seems odd to me. I am not an artist (drafting is about as close as I came) but Larsen slams JB's art but lets Liefeld's alone?
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Steve Ogden
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1263
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| Posted: 16 March 2013 at 8:40pm | IP Logged | 3
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Benny, what Larsen said and did ("correcting" art) was malicious. Not only was it malicious it was unprofessional and disrespectful.
Larsen is not that good of an artist to go around "correcting" any professional artist. Really, he should keep his mouth shut and his "art lessons" to himself.
I feel fairly certain that Neal Adams and John Byrne have forgotten more things about being an artist than Larsen will ever know. If Larsen loves comics like you say he does, then you would agree that if you love and respect something you appreciate and respect what has come before, respect and support fellow professionals (especially ones that are much better artist than you). Clearly, Larsen does none of this and what has Larsen really done for this medium compared to his "students", John Byrne and Neal Adams?
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 16 March 2013 at 11:38pm | IP Logged | 4
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Erik's a fan of JB's stuff, and I know for a fact that he still buys most of JB's new output. Another recent Facebook post of his included a selection of his original art collection, which has a lot of Byrne-Austin pages from the first issues of Superman and the Amalgam Amazon one-shot. Talk to him about JB's work at a convention sometime, and you'll see that he's a big fan.
As for "correcting" art, isn't that something that most of us do to some extent? Ever watch a movie that you love, maybe one of your favorites, but there's that one scene that keeps it from being perfect? An artist friend and I were looking at Superman vs. Muhamad Ali a few years back, and my friend mentioned that it was an almost perfect art job--except for one panel where Superman's feet were cut off oddly at the panel border. He wasn't putting himself above Neal Adams by pointing it out, or by pointing out how he'd correct it, he was just making an observation informed by his years of experience as a working comic book artist.
I'm sure Erik meant his posts as the start of a conversation, not the end of it. Might not have been the most tactful way to start a discussion of panel layout, but I enjoy hearing artists discuss this kind of stuff, whether I agree with them or not. One of my favorite cartoonists working today, a close friend, thinks that Neal Adams ruined comic books, and kind of wishes he'd never drawn one, because of the trends toward photo-reference and serious subject matter in superhero comics that he ushered in. It takes all kinds, I guess.
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Pete York
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 1198
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| Posted: 17 March 2013 at 12:51am | IP Logged | 5
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Here's the problem with the 'Erik Larsen, great guy' notion (to be clear, solely as it relates to John Byrne): I've seen him--particularly when Liefeld and the guy who cut-and-pastes John's posts on Twitter are involved--go down the 'John Byrne is a sad, lonely, old man' route, which is kind of an ugly thing to say.
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Jason Mark Hickok
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 February 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 10472
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| Posted: 17 March 2013 at 1:02am | IP Logged | 6
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Andrew, there is a big difference in thinking something maybe could
have been better a different way and actually taking the time to change
it.
Larsen is mostly a douche. In person when I have met him and online. I
have enjoyed some of his work. I can separate the two things but he
knew exactly what he was doing and did not present that as a
conversation starter.
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 17 March 2013 at 1:32am | IP Logged | 7
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As most of us know, JB incurred the wrath of Image when he openly criticized some of their shady publishing practices. Just as JB incurred the wrath of Jemas and Quesada when he didn't take their lies about Hidden Years timidly. As with Shooter even before all that. These were at times when it seemed like those guys were the alpha males of the comic world. And you know what, JB is still around doing what he does best. And those guys would still try to make their presence known, but manage only to stink up the room with an occassional fart.
Edited by Joe Zhang on 17 March 2013 at 1:34am
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 17 March 2013 at 2:52am | IP Logged | 8
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Larsen is mostly a douche. In person when I have met him and online.
I'm not the most objective person here, since I've worked with Erik on projects before and probably will again (I'm borrowing some of his JB art for a Superman exhibition this spring), and we've had some fun conversations over the past decade, so I'm gonna have to say that we've got completely different perceptions of the guy. He's more brash in his opinions than some artists, but is positively restrained compared to others. Shooting your mouth off to your friends/fans on Facebook might not be something that you think will be of interest to someone else's message board six months down the road, either, but the Internet's funny that way.
Larsen's also been in the comics biz for almost 30 years, from small press stuff to top-selling work-for-hire to self-publishing to publisher of a major company, so I'd say that even when he's wrong about something, he's at least earned some benefit of the doubt as to where that opinion's coming from.
And you know what, JB is still around doing what he does best.
More power to him. Erik Larsen's still around doing what he does best. The rest of the Image founders all seem to be doing exactly what they want to do right now, too. I think fans should be more concerned with guys like Jerry Ordway not getting work than whether or not some creator they don't like is managing to earn a living on their creator-owned comics or not, but that's just me.
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Lars Johansson
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Joined: 04 June 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 6113
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| Posted: 17 March 2013 at 2:56am | IP Logged | 9
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A related question for JB, if I want to (theoretically) make a comic book and you are the artist a la "FX" style, would it be alright if I, not having enough money for a dedicated cover, use a panel from the inside as a cover piece? Not changing anything, the idea is that it is that panel.
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Joe Zhang
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 12857
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| Posted: 17 March 2013 at 3:01am | IP Logged | 10
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" I think fans should be more concerned with guys like Jerry Ordway not getting work than whether or not some creator they don't like is managing to earn a living on their creator-owned comics or not, but that's just me. "
====================
In other words you're telling JB fans to put up and shut up. On JB's own message board.
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 17 March 2013 at 3:24am | IP Logged | 11
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In other words you're telling JB fans to put up and shut up. On JB's own message board.
I'm saying that there will always, always, always be comics that you don't like getting published, and creators that you don't like earning a living off of comics, and it's better for comics if we all go out and support the stuff we really enjoy and encourage others to do the same. Buy The High Ways as a monthly comic, then buy the trade and loan it out to friends, or give the individual issues to a friend and keep the trade on your bookshelf. Not to sound all New Agey, but take some of that energy that you're using to bash a creator to talk up someone who deserves it.
And Erik could spend the time he's using to critique comics pages on getting ahead on Savage Dragon, but it's not like anyone manages to use every waking minute toward work (well, maybe Jack Kirby did, but that's a once-in-a-millennium kind of guy). He's hitting his deadlines, he's sharing his comics theories with his fans, and you've got the option to not buy his books. Everybody wins.
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Jason Mark Hickok
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 February 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 10472
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| Posted: 17 March 2013 at 5:36am | IP Logged | 12
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If you go to Larsen's FB page you can see him tear down another JB
page. So it does seem malicious.
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Topic Closed)
