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Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
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| Posted: 05 March 2013 at 6:25pm | IP Logged | 1
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Oh, and by the way, I hate Nightwing. He's a watered-down Batman clone. He's like the Golden Age Green Arrow before Green Arrow grew his beard. He also fails the Simple Origin Test: "Who's Nightwing? He's Batman's former partner, the original Robin, who grew up and moved away and adopted a new identity. Oh, wow, that must make Batman pretty old by now, right? Oh, uh look over there!"
Was there a major Nightwing TV show or blockbuster movie or any compelling reason for this character to continue to exist when DC has had multiple chances through multiple reboots to make Robin a young Dick Grayson again?
Jason Todd debuted in Batman No. 357 (oh, hey, 30 yrs ago this month!). He lasted about 5 years in the role and since then, there have been 2 other Robins (3 if you count Stephanie Brown). I read the most recent issue of Batman and there's a 20something Dick Grayson, a clearly adult Jason Todd, and a late teens (maybe older) Tim Drake. Meanwhile, Batman still looks 30. I am fine with suspension of disbelief but this is just dumb. De-uniquing Robin was one of the worst mistakes DC has made and it started with the foolish notion of allowing such a classic character to age*.
*I think Wolfman and Perez made this worse by creating Nightwing and introducing him in a scene that was basically fan-service: "I'm too old to dress like this! I'm too old to be Robin. I'll now be Lame Superhero Name!" (Did I mention I don't like Nightwing?)
Yes, Robin had already been "sent off to college" but he could have been kept "eternally late teens" and still Batman's partner -- basically illusion of change rather than the permanent change that Wolfman/Perez made.
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Flavio Sapha
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Brazil
Posts: 12912
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| Posted: 05 March 2013 at 7:03pm | IP Logged | 2
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I don't think Nightwing was ever intended to have solo adventures. In the
context of the Teen Titans, though, I think the "arc" of Dick Grayson's
coming of age worked well enough.
Teen Titans was definitely one of those titles that should've quit at some
point. #50, perhaps?
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Flavio Sapha
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Brazil
Posts: 12912
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| Posted: 05 March 2013 at 7:05pm | IP Logged | 3
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Regarding the multitude of Robins: I surprised myself enjoying BATMAN,
INC. Morrison pulled off a true Batman Family feel in that book.
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Steven Ely
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 February 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 161
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| Posted: 05 March 2013 at 10:03pm | IP Logged | 4
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The original Dick Grayson Robin mask by Bob Kane and Jerry Robinson was of course the correct look that lasted for decades. I love the Robin mask redesign by Neal Adams, too, though. |
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Mike Norris
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 4274
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| Posted: 05 March 2013 at 10:21pm | IP Logged | 5
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He totally stole that from Bucky.
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Steven Ely
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 13 February 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 161
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| Posted: 05 March 2013 at 10:54pm | IP Logged | 6
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Erin Anna Leach
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 21 February 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 746
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| Posted: 06 March 2013 at 9:45am | IP Logged | 7
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I look at some of these guys (like the Damian Wayne version) and think of how long it took to lace up my skates for hockey in school! And that was just the skates! **** I do agree with what you are saying concerning the uniforms of the heroes, and the artist that draw them. Editors should turn to the artist and say, " ok, now show me how fast you can get into those style of boots. " However, I do have a real world reference for Damian's boot laces. Clear back into the mid 80's the U.S. military used Speed Laces in all of their combat boots. They unlace by simply pulling the top of the boot in opposite directions. They lace up by just grabing the laces at the top of the boot and pulling. You can get in and out of them really quickly. What I want to know is, where does young Damian store those boots when he is in civilian cloths?
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Flavio Sapha
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: Brazil
Posts: 12912
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| Posted: 06 March 2013 at 11:33am | IP Logged | 8
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You know, super-heroes haven´t had a civilian life since Image started out...
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Lars Sandmark
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 October 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 3144
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| Posted: 06 March 2013 at 7:53pm | IP Logged | 9
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One of the conventions of Super-Hero comicbooks is the Hero making a quick change out of his civilian clothes into his heroic identity.
(Danger arises and the Hero is on the scene to protect the innocent.)
Most modern writers don't like to have thought balloons, speed lines, or sound effects, maybe now they're trying to get rid of the hero's costumes being hidden under their clothes too.
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Andy Mokler
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 20 January 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 2799
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| Posted: 07 March 2013 at 5:51am | IP Logged | 10
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Looking at these latter day Robins, I am reminded of a point which seems to completely elude current artists: superheroes are supposed to be "quick change artists". They are supposed to be able to shed their civilian identity in a matter of seconds and race into action. I look at some of these guys (like the Damian Wayne version) and think of how long it took to lace up my skates for hockey in school! And that was just the skates!
Isn't this a slippery slope though? I mean, isn't thinking about super-heroes and comic books too "realistically" the point at which one should consider finding another hobby?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133327
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| Posted: 07 March 2013 at 6:17am | IP Logged | 11
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Teen Titans was definitely one of those titles that should've quit at some point. #50, perhaps?•• Or perhaps readers of TEEN TITANS should have left before they started complaining that the characters were not aging "as they should"?
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133327
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| Posted: 07 March 2013 at 6:19am | IP Logged | 12
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I love the Robin mask redesign by Neal Adams, too, though.•• I don't think that was a conscious redesign, so much as Neal drawing Robin's mask the same way he drew Green Lantern's and Green Arrow's -- those "stuck on" masks with "no visible means of support".
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Topic Closed)
