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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 132643
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| Posted: 03 February 2013 at 9:36am | IP Logged | 1
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It also amuses me to find avowed atheists who are WAY more knowledgeable than scripture and religion than those religious fundamentalist types who CLAIM to be Christians, etc. Kind of makes me wonder who really IS seeking God, and who feels a greater need for the comfort that knowledge of a higher power would bring.•• I file it under "Know thine enemy."
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David Plunkert
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 July 2012
Posts: 536
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| Posted: 03 February 2013 at 11:40am | IP Logged | 2
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"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
Seneca (4 BC- AD 65) (sometime attributed to Lucretius)
Way to put it in the nutshell Mr. Ancient Humanist.
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Monte Gruhlke
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 May 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 3303
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| Posted: 03 February 2013 at 12:06pm | IP Logged | 3
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Mmmmm, Chick-Filet patties and fries.
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Bill Conway
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 23 October 2010
Posts: 294
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| Posted: 03 February 2013 at 12:39pm | IP Logged | 4
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I personally don't participate in religious debates - I think it's a waste of time. However, I do think that when a believer engages or is engaged by an atheist in a debate about the existence of God - it should be done from a purely theist/atheist point of view and should not involve a specific religion, like Christianity.
Using the Bible to prove God's existence gets too far down into the weeds and muddies the arguments by dredging up thinks like conflicting scriptures, dogma, and the history of the Church.
Getting back to my example of the conversion of C.S Lewis - Tolkien first engaged him with an argument in theism and once that was accomplished, then when on to Christianity. Smart fellow that JRR!
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Jodi Moisan
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 February 2008
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03 February 2013 at 1:05pm | IP Logged | 5
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Mmmmm, Chick-Filet patties and fries.
LOL Monte bigotry is always best served with honey mustard dipping sauce.
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Michael Penn
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 April 2006
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03 February 2013 at 1:56pm | IP Logged | 6
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...a debate about the existence of God - it should be done from a purely theist/atheist point of view and should not involve a specific religion, like Christianity.
***
Even if a theist and atheist agree to debate the existence of God without reference to a specific religion, the debate itself cannot move forward without the theist defining specifics about the "God" postulated to exist, e.g., all-good, all-knowing, all-powerful, if those, and/or others, etc., whatever the theist may choose. The theist and the agnostic too are in the same quandary. To argue "God" pro or con, even the impossibility of utter disproof, "God" must be defined. "God" cannot merely be a nullity beyond two words -- "God exists" -- or the debate ends right there, before it had ever begun. Once the theist offers non-denominational specifics, then the mode of the atheist's arguments about them do not differ radically from arguments about denominational specifics, even if the content of argument would necessarily be focused especially the particulars of one denomination.
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Michael Kane
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Joined: 05 July 2005
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03 February 2013 at 4:25pm | IP Logged | 7
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In at least seven U.S. states, constitutional provisions are in place that bar atheists from public office and one state, Arkansas, has a law that bars an atheist from testifying as a witness at a trial. There are reasons for this folks.
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Ed Aycock
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 05 May 2004
Location: United States
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| Posted: 03 February 2013 at 5:31pm | IP Logged | 8
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What are the reasons, Michael?
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Larry Hart
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 September 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 112
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| Posted: 03 February 2013 at 5:52pm | IP Logged | 9
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David Plunkett: "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
Seneca (4 BC- AD 65) (sometime attributed to Lucretius) * * I think that realization was what first turned me against belief in any organized religion. It was the realization that religious dogma always somehow supports the power of the current rulers. Which, again, is a different thing from being turned against a belief in the supernatural, which came through the realization that I never EVER saw any supernatural phenomenon, even something as simple as a pencil floating in mid-air. And that even deeply religious people who pray to God for guidance and intervention don't act as if they really ever expect a pillar of fire or a Red Sea parting to occur before their eyes.
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Larry Hart
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| Posted: 03 February 2013 at 5:58pm | IP Logged | 10
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Michael Penn: ...what I"m saying is that the Bible doesn't read like an "instruction manual" at all. ****
"...at all"? * * I'm talking more about form than content. If an appliance comes with an instruction manual, that document contains step-by-step instructions on how to put the thing together, or what to do when it doesn't work properly. It doesn't contain STORIES about bad things that happen to people if they don't use it properly.
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Aaron Smith
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| Posted: 03 February 2013 at 6:41pm | IP Logged | 11
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What are the reasons, Michael?
***
Yes, Michael, please. I can't wait to hear this.
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David Plunkert
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 July 2012
Posts: 536
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| Posted: 03 February 2013 at 7:51pm | IP Logged | 12
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Thank goodness Arkansas is making sure that the godless don't testify... their system of justice might be suspect otherwise. ; )
Edited by David Plunkert on 03 February 2013 at 9:25pm
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Topic Closed)
