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Topic: American Atheists should Come Out of the Closet ! (Topic Closed Topic Closed) Post ReplyPost New Topic
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Christophe Malgrain
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Posted: 30 January 2013 at 3:00pm | IP Logged | 1  

Since religion and atheism are often debated here, I thought this article might interest you guys. It's always astonishing for us Europeans to hear about anti-atheist discimination in the States, because here in France, for instance,except for muslims, atheism and agnosticism are the norm and it is usually catholics who hide their beliefs in conversations.

http://www.examiner.com/article/science-says-atheists-should -come-out-of-the-closet-for-their-own-good

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Rick Shepherd
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Posted: 30 January 2013 at 3:47pm | IP Logged | 2  

I'm wondering, just how bad is it for American non-believers* (however they describe themselves)?

Here in the UK, I used to get the old bit of some kids at my [predominantly C-of-E] primary school saying "you don't believe in God?!? But you'll go to Hell when you die!!" - all of which didn't bother me, since I don't believe in Hell, either! And there was one rather obstinate Religious Studies teacher (Christian, FYI) who was fine with people putting 'Judaism' or 'Islam' under their 'beliefs' in a classroom exercise, but couldn't wrap her head around 12-year-old me putting 'none' in the same box - "everyone has to believe in something spiritual!". Er, no - and why, exactly, should I?

No actual discrimination in the workplace or anything like that over here, though - with a few exceptions (that I've not had to deal with personally - thank goodness), it's by-and-large 'live and let live'. But I do hear some particularly depressing horror stories about that sort of thing over the Big Pond, and I'm curious to know what the reality of that is.


*I don't have a problem with 'Atheist' for those who prefer to align themselves under that banner, but personally, I just say I 'have no belief in the religious, spiritual or superstitious', 'I don't put any stock in blind faith' or 'I adhere to a rational, logical, secular worldview'. Oh, sure - it's not as succinct as 'Atheist', but it does cover a lot more ground than just the absence of deities (it deals with everything from conspiracy theories and alternative medicine to the Easter Bunny!), and also neatly sidesteps the 'Atheism as a secular religion' fallacy that gets so very annoying...

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Steven Myers
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Posted: 30 January 2013 at 10:36pm | IP Logged | 3  

I don't advertise my atheism too loudly because I don't want to hear it. I've had people say things in front of me like "How could anyone be an atheist? That's so stupid!" because people assume I'm religious. Perhaps they don't see anything obviously wrong with me, so they think I must be a christian. And I live on Lake Erie, not quite the bible belt!

I don't lie about my lack of faith, I just don't mention it.
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Brian Peck
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Posted: 30 January 2013 at 10:53pm | IP Logged | 4  

Everyone knows I am an atheist, I have never hid the fact. My good friends
most are religious, they used to ask me alot of questions about being an
atheist and I answered them all. They don't hold it against me and I don't
hold their view of life against them.
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Jodi Moisan
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Posted: 30 January 2013 at 11:40pm | IP Logged | 5  

I do not keep my beliefs secret, most of my friends have no problem with it. I avoid talking about religion to strangers just because I think it is none of my business what they believe. If they want to share how they feel, I listen and if it is a discussion, I explain how I feel.  I have one friend that I have known for a very long time. She lives in the house behind me. She belongs to a church that some members, will actually 'speak in tongues". Her oldest is a youth pastor.

Her 2 youngest were Jackson's very good friends. They practically lived at my house during the summers and after school. We took them everywhere and they always seemed to have such a great time. When her brother in law came one day, to pick up his son and hers, he asked about Jackson going to bible camp in the summer with the boys. I explained that he wouldn't be going, because we were atheists. He didn't seem shocked or bothered by it, nothing more was said. But from that day on, the 2 boys of my friend, have not been over and that was 2 years ago.

She called when she found out Chuck was sick and offered to help if I needed it. And now when I see her, she is friendly. After Chuck died her boys came over a couple times, but at that point Jackson didn't feel he could trust them with a friendship. He treated them well, just didn't ask for them to come back.

At work, one of my responsibilities is to decorate the bank for different holidays. My manager is a super nice guy, love working for him. But after I got finished with decorating for Christmas he came and spoke to me about the greeting I did. I used "Happy Holiday" he came up to me and said he wanted for me to change it to "Merry Christmas", because he "was not willing to let them take Christmas away from him."  I asked what he meant by this. He explained that he was not ready to let the true meaning of the holiday go. I explained to him that Happy Holidays, did not take anything away from him and it was a greeting that welcomed ALL our customers. I  started naming the customers that I knew practiced different faiths and explained that this time of year was also special to them.

He insisted I make another sign with "Merry Christmas" on it and make it the larger of the two. I explained that if that sign was made, it would be done by another employee. I felt what I had done was enough. I had also put up stockings for all of us that we each decorated. The manager had not finished his, so I got an extra one and decorated it for him. I put his name and Merry Christmas on it, with a cross. I hung it on the wall with the others.  I showed it to him and explained that HIS faith was proudly displayed.

Here in the mid-west
I am a fish out of water. Being a liberal, atheist democrat makes me a minority in most situations. But as long as someone doesn't try to "save " me, it's all good and I can usually find enough that we do have in common to talk about.




Edited by Jodi Moisan on 31 January 2013 at 6:40am
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Christophe Malgrain
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Posted: 31 January 2013 at 1:21am | IP Logged | 6  

The part of the article about the census is interesting. I've always heard that there are only 3 percent of atheists in the US, yet, most Americans I've met are non-religious. I've been to California a lot of times, and all of the many guys I know there are atheists. I know that California is the most liberal state, of course, but 3 percent doesn't sound like an accurate number.
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Neil Lindholm
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Posted: 31 January 2013 at 1:22am | IP Logged | 7  

I don't recall anyone ever asking me in Canada if I was religious or not. It never seems to come up in conversation. 

I have been somewhat put off when Americans asks me "So, what church do you belong to?" I simply tell them I am an atheist and let it go at that. I never realised that it was deemed something strange in the States until reading about some of the negative feelings towards atheists. It is a question you will never hear in Canada. 

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Robert White
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Posted: 31 January 2013 at 7:15am | IP Logged | 8  

I think most of us know that there are for more non-believers than one would think going by polls and things like that. There is still a social stigma on admitting it in many circles, mostly in the deep South and other rural, less educated, areas. 
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John Byrne
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Posted: 31 January 2013 at 7:50am | IP Logged | 9  

My own experience is that it does little good for atheists to "out" themselves. My friends and most of my fans know my feelings on the subject (I have been called an "evangelical atheist" in fact, since I am not shy about proclaiming by philosophies), but so many whom I have encountered over the years have assumed my atheism to due to my simply being "misinformed". At conventions, not a few well meaning fans have offered me copies of the Bible, hoping I will read it, and been surprised when I've told them I already have.

The indoctrination in the majority of believers runs so deep many cannot take even a single step back, to look at their religions from "outside", to ask themselves how much they would accept of these teachings if they had not been drilled into them when they were far to young to realize they were being brainwashed. It is in large part due to this that so many "fear" atheists. Ironically, since they think atheists are such because they, the atheists, are "misinformed", the fear springs from believers being themselves misinformed about atheists.

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Kevin Hagerman
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Posted: 31 January 2013 at 8:07am | IP Logged | 10  

I'm out.  It's caused considerable strife in my family, but they didn't reject me.

Now one of my neices is calling herself an atheist (although she still believes in heaven, just not God, go figure).  This got laid at my feet.  I protested, because I have never spoken to my nieces or nephews about my atheism - I figured they'd ask someday, and I'd answer.

"Well, she must have gotten it from someone."

Why?  I didn't.

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Robert White
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Posted: 31 January 2013 at 8:16am | IP Logged | 11  

Any family that would give an intelligent person grief over having a rational belief system is the one who should be "rejected." 

I saw through religion as a child--without the influence of an evil atheist beckoning to me over a rotten old fence in some sinister graveyard on the wrong side of the tracks. Give me a break. Any thinking person, if they're honest, will "get" it for themselves.
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John Byrne
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Posted: 31 January 2013 at 8:36am | IP Logged | 12  

There IS much in the World to fear. Nature on a rampage, disease, famine, war, random acts of senseless violence. So it is only natural for people to seek some kind of "reason" for all this horror.

Unfortunately, when we start inventing gods to explain the unexplainable, we all too quickly begin building hierarchies and power structures. And not just for the gods. Churches, in virtually any faith you would care to name, very quickly turned, after their creation, into instruments for controlling the populace. Consider how many Christian churches, for example, actually usurp the power of the God they claim to follow, giving to themselves the right to punish and condemn "in his name". Consider how deeply churches involve themselves in the politics of the nation. (It is all too often forgotten that the Founding Fathers, here in America, dictated a separation of church and state in order to protect the state from the church, not the other way around.)

Various faiths become so ingrained in their cultures that people are often unaware of when they are making their presence felt. The simple reflex of saying "God bless you" when someone sneezes is an example of hundred of years of programming. When someone suggests "Happy Holidays" or "Seasons Greetings" would be more inclusive ways of expressing cheer at the ending of the (artificially dictated) year, there are those who will spring forth to "defend Xmas" from this "attack". (Even the use of Xmas causes great consternation in some quarters, the fact that this was an early Christian abbreviation, and not something created to "take Christ out of Christmas" being forgotten.)

The overwhelming theme of religion in all its forms is enforced ignorance. Once people have been brainwashed into "believing", and thus thinking their faith provides ALL the answers (and if they cannot find them, it's their own fault!), they stop asking questions. For centuries in Europe, the dominating Catholic church murdered countless people for daring to ASK QUESTIONS. Questions, unfortunately for the power structure of the Church, invariably led AWAY from the mind numbing opiates of religion.

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