Author |
|
Stephen Churay Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 March 2009 Location: United States Posts: 8369
|
Posted: 25 January 2013 at 11:14pm | IP Logged | 1
|
|
|
Sadly, if XM:THY didn't click with modern audiences it's because it didn't have enough soap opera. Although not as bad as it became, by that point, decompression and the six issue story was in full effect. The reprogramming of the audience had already begun.
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
|
Carmen Bernardo Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 08 August 2006 Location: United States Posts: 3666
|
Posted: 26 January 2013 at 5:34am | IP Logged | 2
|
|
|
QUOTE:
too much drama and not enough action |
|
|
And I used to complain about this a lot. As recent storytelling trends at the Big Two have shown me, my complaints then were unfounded. Today's staff just doesn't know when to leave enough up to the fans' imaginations.
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
|
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133317
|
Posted: 26 January 2013 at 7:07am | IP Logged | 3
|
|
|
I didn't see it at first but considering the last ten issues:1. Angel's story with his mother was like Hamlet's. Didn't the characters acknowledge this in the story? 2. The Promise mother was lost for years, then meets her adult son who rejects her. 3. The teasers of Xavier with the mutant child's mother who was interested in him were very reminiscent of soap opera storytelling where the characters are in an episode but the plot does not advance. I can see where someone could think it in regards to those issues. •• Those are definitely "soap opera" elements, and exactly the kind of things I try to include in my stories -- smaller human stuff, peppered thru the bigger, broader strokes. Answer me this, tho: would you consider the stories you list more about the "soap opera" than, say, a Lee/Ditko issue of AMAZING SPIDER-MAN, with Parker's latest worries about money and Aunt May's health, his troubles with JJJ, his romantic upheavals?
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
|
Thomas Moudry Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004 Location: United States Posts: 5060
|
Posted: 26 January 2013 at 10:25am | IP Logged | 4
|
|
|
I like the "soap opera" elements in comic book stories. It's called characterization. Stan Lee and the Bullpen pretty much defined the practice from Fantastic Four #1-on.
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
|
Francesco Vanagolli Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 03 June 2005 Location: Italy Posts: 3130
|
Posted: 26 January 2013 at 1:04pm | IP Logged | 5
|
|
|
John Byrne:
QUOTE:
Answer me this, tho: would you consider the stories you list more about the "soap opera" than, say, a Lee/Ditko issue of AMAZING SPIDER-MAN, with Parker's latest worries about money and Aunt May's health, his troubles with JJJ, his romantic upheavals? |
|
|
"The usual, annoying stuff", as so many aged readers would say.
Soap opera elements, or simply "human elements", help these characters in being more than action figures fighting one against the other. When I was a kid, I loved to see Spider-Man in actions, but I wanted some room for Peter Parker, too. And this is where stories like the Clone saga or the all new Superior Spider-Man fail completely (and this is the reason why, despite appreciating what Dan Slott is doing, I hope to see a conclusion soon: I want, no, I DEMAND Peter Parker!).
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
|
Steve Jamrozik Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 December 2005 Location: United States Posts: 80
|
Posted: 26 January 2013 at 4:01pm | IP Logged | 6
|
|
|
Answer me this, tho: would you consider the stories you list more about the "soap opera" than, say, a Lee/Ditko issue of AMAZING SPIDER-MAN, with Parker's latest worries about money and Aunt May's health, his troubles with JJJ, his romantic upheavals? I think your balance is fine, but I like Stan Lee style stories. It was just easier to recall soap opera elements in these issues than the first year of the title. As for the reviewer, maybe he was looking for something more Justice League or Law and Order instead of X-Men. I'd chalk it up to personal taste.
Edited by Steve Jamrozik on 26 January 2013 at 4:34pm
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
|
Steve Jamrozik Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 29 December 2005 Location: United States Posts: 80
|
Posted: 26 January 2013 at 4:14pm | IP Logged | 7
|
|
|
Salvaging a double post: Based on the positive reviews of the earlier works he liked I can't guess why these stories have more drama than those stories. I'd write the criticism off.
Edited by Steve Jamrozik on 26 January 2013 at 4:44pm
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
|
Shawn Kane Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 November 2010 Location: United States Posts: 3239
|
Posted: 27 January 2013 at 6:46am | IP Logged | 8
|
|
|
The soap opera element is as much a Marvel quality as anything. I've been re-reading my Marvel Masterworks of the original X-Men and just about every issue Cyclops and Marvel Girl are secretly mooning over one another. That's a soap opera element but there's action against Magneto and the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, Juggernaut, the Sentinels and it's in every issue. Not once during X-Men: The Hidden Years was there an issue that didn't have action in it. It's not like JB had full issues of the X-Men sitting around a breakfast table (with pages of nothing but face shots) impressing us with their snappy dialogue like certain writers like to do nowadays.
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
|
John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005 Posts: 133317
|
Posted: 27 January 2013 at 7:02am | IP Logged | 9
|
|
|
Not once during X-Men: The Hidden Years was there an issue that didn't have action in it. It's not like JB had full issues of the X-Men sitting around a breakfast table (with pages of nothing but face shots) impressing us with their snappy dialogue like certain writers like to do nowadays. •• In his most excellent HISTORY OF COMICS, Jim Steranko tells the story of Mac Raboy, artist on CAPTAIN MARVEL JR. turning in a story and the editor, upon flipping thru it, pointing out that Raboy had done one page -- ONE PAGE, mind you! -- that was all "talking heads", then considered a No-No. Raboy's response was to take back ALL the pages and TEAR THEM UP!! That tale really stuck in my head, and, with the exception of a couple of times I have done it for a specific effect, I have carefully avoided whole pages of "talking heads".
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
|
|
Jean-Francois Joutel Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 06 November 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 315
|
Posted: 27 January 2013 at 8:35am | IP Logged | 10
|
|
|
The Highways #1 didn't have any "action", but it did present an intriguing mystery, complex characters and an undercurrent of suspense.
I think the issue is much stronger as is, rather than if JB had shoehorned a fight scene to appease the "action" fans.
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
|
|
Mikael Bergkvist Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 23 April 2005 Location: Sweden Posts: 1857
|
Posted: 27 January 2013 at 9:10am | IP Logged | 11
|
|
|
So what is "action"? Simply a fight scene? I have always defined action as constant building up of clear and present danger, in the story.The stress increases because the threat is not diminishing no matter what the characters do, but instead continue to build. But that approach doesn't require violence but is often constructed as drama or mystery during the initial phase. The characters feel the pain of going through daily chores, as Peter Parker has to do stuff for his aunt, while he knows at this very moment, Doc Octopus is out there, preparing his next move. He knows it's coming no matter what he does. The release comes when all hell finally breaks loose, and he is finally free to react to the threat, and thus make some kind of progress - or possibly die.
That's a storytelling technique that pretty much relies on "soap opera elements", or it wont work. If you are to wait for the unavoidable, the character must have something we can relate to, to do while waiting for his doom.
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
| www
e-mail
|
|
Stephen Churay Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 March 2009 Location: United States Posts: 8369
|
Posted: 27 January 2013 at 11:28am | IP Logged | 12
|
|
|
The Highways #1 didn't have any "action", but it did present an intriguing mystery, complex characters and an undercurrent of suspense.
===== While reading it, I was hearing Jerry Goldsmith's ALIEN score in my head. That really gave me a sense that it's a mystery book, and we've only begun to peel back the onion layers.
|
Back to Top |
profile
| search
e-mail
|
|