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Shawn Kane
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 04 November 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 3239
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| Posted: 19 December 2012 at 12:08pm | IP Logged | 1
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I've read the good and the bad up until shortly after "Brand New Day". After more than 30 years? I finally stopped. I know what you mean, Matt. When Chris Claremont left the X-Men the first time, I continued to buy but it changed too much for me and I eventually dropped the book (and all comics) for a few years. I got back into comics and collected the Chuck Austen and Grant Morrison's X-Men. Not to my liking but another return from Chris Claremont and a new title for Joss Whedon were enough to keep me around. Fast forward through Brubaker, Fraction, Carey, and others but I continued to buy. Then one day, I thought "No one will ever top the X-Men that I bought 30 years ago" and I didn't like the direction that the books were heading so I dropped. I managed to miss AVX and am happy for that. I did try the most recent Bendis run and once again, just not the X-Men to me. I thought that idea that the original X-Men were coming back to tell the current incarnation what a train wreck they are would be a good commentary on how I feel. It was still a Bendis comic so I dropped it. I feel the same way about Superman nowadays. Killing Pa Kent a few years back ended one of the things that made JB's Superman "my" Superman. They may still produce quality stories (and I'm willing to check out Scott Snyder's Superman) but sometimes you've moved beyond those titles.
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David Ferguson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 6782
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| Posted: 19 December 2012 at 1:15pm | IP Logged | 2
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Anyone still reading NuMarvel's junk is a little-messed up anyways. ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------- What a charmer you are.
I haven't been up to date with ASM but I picked up the last two issues digitally and really enjoyed them. I have no problem with Peter Parker not being Spider-Man for a while. It's all the 'illusion of change' in my view. There are currently 50 years of past Peter Parker stories for people to read to tide them over,
*****************
As long as they do go back. I was hoping they would finally split Cyclops and Emma up and go back to Jean.
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Greg Friedman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 September 2012
Posts: 116
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| Posted: 19 December 2012 at 1:33pm | IP Logged | 3
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Not to minimize the seriousness of a death threat, but this reminds me of the character SUPERBOY PRIME.
Let's face it, a lot of kids (or not kids) get *very* immersed in superheroes because their social life is. . .shall we say. . .lacking.
SBP is a character that ridicules that mindset and displays the power of nostalgia in which an individual yearns for a time, place, or feeling when everything was "all right".
What's more, SBP also illuminates how the creators of comics *know* that these kind of people are in their audience and willfully manipulate them and their passions.
That's why Johns finally had mercy on SBP and gave him a happy ending; because he *was* supposed to be Superman after all.
Edited by Greg Friedman on 19 December 2012 at 1:35pm
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Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 15775
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| Posted: 19 December 2012 at 1:35pm | IP Logged | 4
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Bad stories and stunts aside, the thing that irks me is that they're ending AMAZING, which, as far as I'm concerned, should be one of the top-tier, flasgship books. Brilliant marketing strategy, too, since the film bearing that title is still relatively new. Makes perfect sense to cancel the book, right? Also, that bit about "The World's Greatest Superhero!" above the masthead doesn't sit right with me. Isn't one of the points of the character that he's, well...not the world's greatest superhero? This used to mean something. 
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Adam Hutchinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 15 December 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4502
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| Posted: 19 December 2012 at 1:50pm | IP Logged | 5
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I would say that Spider-Man doesn't believe he's "the world's greatest
super-hero" but that's part of what makes him the world's greatest
super-hero.
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Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
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| Posted: 19 December 2012 at 3:12pm | IP Logged | 6
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What was unique about Spider-Man's position at Marvel, especially pre-MARVEL TEAM-UP, is that he was a flagship character *outside the Marvel universe* but within that world, he was the underdog. He wasn't an Avenger. He wasn't a living legend like Captain America or the Fantastic Four. This is what made him so identifiable to the kids reading the book.
It was slightly different from Superman, who was a flagship character through and through.
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Greg Kirkman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 12 May 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 15775
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| Posted: 19 December 2012 at 3:17pm | IP Logged | 7
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What was unique about Spider-Man's position at Marvel, especially pre-MARVEL TEAM-UP, is that he was a flagship character *outside the Marvel universe* but within that world, he was the underdog. ++++++++++ My point exactly.
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Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
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| Posted: 19 December 2012 at 3:21pm | IP Logged | 8
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JB: Part of the reason for this is the shift in target audience. An important element of superheroes in the beginning was adolescent fantasy. They tapped into the frustrations of tween years, especially that "I they only knew!" fantasy that has played thru many a young mind. Peter Parker was a near perfect embodiment of this -- deliberately so! It's even reflected in the copy on the cover of AMAZING FANTASY 15. But as the target audience has become more "adult" (mostly chronologically), different fantasies have stepped to the fore.
******
SER: This sort of connects to the other thread about Superman/Clark Kent. I always thought that the JB Clark Kent effectively captured the "If they only knew" fantasy. There's one scene in SUPERMAN 1 when Clark reflects on how he knows Lois would "fall into his arms" if he told her he was Superman. But he wants to win her as he "truly" is.
Pre-MOS, that dynamic never existed. Clark Kent was a "creation" of Superman's, and every dismissal by Lois or bullying from a creep just got a wink to the reader from Clark. It didn't really matter to him. (And by the late '70s/early '80s, Superman is actively dating Lois as Superman, which extinquished any pretense of the triangle.)
I think this is why a lot of Marvel characters were "relatable" because their worries were authentic. It really did bother Peter Parker if his Aunt May thought he was irresponsible. It didn't bother Superman if Lois thought Clark was a goof... that was the point.
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Greg Friedman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 September 2012
Posts: 116
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| Posted: 19 December 2012 at 3:54pm | IP Logged | 9
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Right that was the POINT!
No awkward adolescent really believed (or wanted to believe) that his awkward humdrum self that other people saw and ignored was his real self. It was just an act, natch. It hid the special Superman underneath. That was the real person. Therefore, it didn't really bother them if they got made fun of in school. The joke was on the bullies who didn't realize who they were messing with!
And that's why making Clark the "real guy" is a total torpedo to the adolescent fantasy.
Superman just acts like a geek.
Spider-Man really is one who lucked out into spider-powers.
Edited by Greg Friedman on 19 December 2012 at 3:55pm
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Matt Reed
Byrne Robotics Security
Robotmod
Joined: 16 April 2004
Posts: 35921
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| Posted: 19 December 2012 at 4:02pm | IP Logged | 10
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Please don't carry the Superman/Kent conversation into this thread.
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Greg Friedman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 September 2012
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| Posted: 19 December 2012 at 4:04pm | IP Logged | 11
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Hey, tell that to Stephen! I was responding to his post which brought the Superman/Kent subject into play.
Edited by Greg Friedman on 19 December 2012 at 4:05pm
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Rick Shepherd
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 June 2012
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1095
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| Posted: 19 December 2012 at 4:29pm | IP Logged | 12
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Edited - reposting in the Superman thread. Sorry - read some previous posts, and went into 'Autopilot' mode, rather than reading the topic and keeping on it!
Nothing to see here, folk - we now return you to your scheduled programming...
Edited by Rick Shepherd on 19 December 2012 at 4:30pm
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Topic Closed)
