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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133317
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| Posted: 11 January 2013 at 7:11am | IP Logged | 1
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…when I was a kid my parents used to rent a summer cottage that happened to be next door to a modest cottage owned by Tom Selleck. Tom would sometimes go into the local town to shop and would wear his Coke bottle glasses, leave his hairpiece off (he's not totally bald but had what my Mom referred to as a 'dimespot'), and wore his normal 'bummy' clothes. If you were to meet him you would not think "That's Tom Selleck", mostly because you've conditioned yourself to think that if you were to meet someone famous a) that they must look and dress exactly like they do when they appear on TV/film and b) that it must not be them because they wouldn't be hanging around in your neck of the woods. •• On the flip side of this, shortly after I moved to New York I was walking up Park Avenue, when a woman passed by. "Wow," I thought, "she looked just like Bernadette Peters!" About a block and a half later, my brain started actually working and I realized it WAS Bernadette Peters!
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133317
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| Posted: 11 January 2013 at 7:13am | IP Logged | 2
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"Wouldn't it be cool if we took the Dark Phoenix Saga and Secret Wars and mixed them together?!".•• All stories essentially begin with "Wouldn't it be cool if. . . ?" What seems to be missing from much of what we see in modern comics is the all-important realization that sometimes the answer to that question is "No."
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David Ferguson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 17 March 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 6782
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| Posted: 11 January 2013 at 7:42am | IP Logged | 3
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I think a lot of those "no" stories belong in the pages of a What If? issue.
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Andrew Bitner
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 01 June 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 7526
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| Posted: 11 January 2013 at 9:02am | IP Logged | 4
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Uh-oh. COMING SUMMER 2014: DARK PHOENIX VS. THE BEYONDER! I can see it now... :(
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Andrew W. Farago
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 19 July 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 4079
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| Posted: 11 January 2013 at 2:17pm | IP Logged | 5
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I think this storyline could have played out better with a more gradual change in Peter with the readers getting more accustomed to Peter talking and acting like Otto and then pulling the rug out with the reveal in #698. Leave everyone wondering how long Otto's been in there and when the switch occurred.
There were some hints of something going on in previous storylines, like Spider-Man's "I'm sick of dealing with you" attitude toward Morbius. You're right that a more drawn-out reveal that lets us know we've been seeing an impostor for a full year would have really been something.
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Rob Ocelot
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 07 December 2008
Location: Canada
Posts: 1231
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| Posted: 13 January 2013 at 1:16pm | IP Logged | 6
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There were some hints of something going on in previous storylines, like Spider-Man's "I'm sick of dealing with you" attitude toward Morbius. You're right that a more drawn-out reveal that lets us know we've been seeing an impostor for a full year would have really been something.
It's revealed in subsequent issues that the switch happened just after the Hobgoblin fight in the issue preceding #698, however I think Slott bread crumbed a few moments here and there in earlier story arcs where it could be retrofitted if they decided to make the reveal more dramatic. I suspect they didn't go with that because it's the comic equivalent of 'Bobby Ewing in the shower' and who knows what fan reaction to that would be. :-)
We've all griped about the practice of Writing For the Trade but I've yet to see anyone complain about Writing For the Spoilers. I feel far too many comic writers today structure their stories with full knowledge that the big plot twists and character deaths are likely to be spoiled and discussed online long before the issues hit the stands. Publishers love that people are talking about their product but I wonder how authors react to having all of their carefully constructed plots blown wide open, speculated on, criticized, and written off in online forums before they have a chance to even finish the story.
It's kind of amusing how Slott engages the comic press to combat and confound the spoiler phenomenon. After the reveal of the first Superior Spider-man sketch Dan let loose with a fake 'oops' tweet referring to 'Miguel' causing everyone to speculate that it was Spider-man 2099 (Miguel O'hara). Then we had the 'don't spoil ASM#700 or you'll be on my Twitter shit list' flap.
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John Byrne
Grumpy Old Guy
Joined: 11 May 2005
Posts: 133317
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| Posted: 13 January 2013 at 1:26pm | IP Logged | 7
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We've all griped about the practice of Writing For the Trade but I've yet to see anyone complain about Writing For the Spoilers. I feel far too many comic writers today structure their stories with full knowledge that the big plot twists and character deaths are likely to be spoiled and discussed online long before the issues hit the stands. Publishers love that people are talking about their product but I wonder how authors react to having all of their carefully constructed plots blown wide open, speculated on, criticized, and written off in online forums before they have a chance to even finish the story. •• When discussions of my current storylines get started here in the Forum, I have many a time asked folk not to speculate about where the story is going. After all, there really are a finite number of ways stories can play out, and speculation on the internet tends to fall into the "throw enough **** at the wall…" school. Enough guesses, and some of them are bound to be right. That said, since speculation cannot be completely eliminated -- there are some who take great delight in spoiling the fun of others -- it is generally best for writers not to let themselves be ruled by it. If someone guesses your story, just plow on, head held high. (Sometimes the way stories happen can be a surprise to everyone, including the writer(s). After all, Chris and I THOUGHT we had the end of the Dark Phoenix saga all plotted and penciled and done! In the case of this Spider-story, it's easy enough to imagine someone complaining to Slott that he's been writing Spider-Man out of character, and that hatching a whole plotline in his head. Not saying that's what happened, but the way these things work, it's not inconceivable. Especially when so many fans, TOLD that something was "planned all along" are SO eager to "spot the clues" that "prove" this to be so. Darth Vader, anyone?)
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Stephen Churay
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 25 March 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 8369
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| Posted: 13 January 2013 at 1:45pm | IP Logged | 8
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Marvel's new Method of Procedure appears to feed the spoiler
machine. Light the fuse, watch the explosion and hope they can keep
the momentum going for the next few issues.
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Greg Friedman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 September 2012
Posts: 116
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| Posted: 13 January 2013 at 3:17pm | IP Logged | 9
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When I was a kid, I used to wonder when Superman had been so foolish as to TELL people he had a secret identity.
Did he? I don't recall any issue of that happening.
In the gold and silver age, I mostly remember Lois suspecting Clark is Superman because he's never around when the action goes down.
On the flip side of this, shortly after I moved to New York I was
walking up Park Avenue, when a woman passed by. "Wow," I thought, "she
looked just like Bernadette Peters!" Seeing stars in real life is both weird and vaguely disappointing for me. There's just something about lighting, make-up, and actually being "framed" by a TV or movie screen that turns a person into a kind of larger than life god who lives in a separate reality.
But of course, they are just flesh and blood people walking around. Same kind of people who you work with or went to high school with, except they made it in showbiz.
And they are usually very small. Wasn't it Merv Griffin who said small bodies and big heads are what photograph well?
Edited by Greg Friedman on 13 January 2013 at 3:22pm
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Stephen Robinson
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 April 2004
Location: United States
Posts: 5835
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| Posted: 13 January 2013 at 3:46pm | IP Logged | 10
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GREG: When I was a kid, I used to wonder when Superman had been so foolish as to TELL people he had a secret identity.
Did he? I don't recall any issue of that happening.
*********
SER: Everyone seemed to think that Superman had a civilian identity. There were many occasions when he flat-out told people that he had one. It never made sense to me. Aside from not wearing a mask, Superman did not hide the fact that his Kryptonian name was Kal-El and that he "lived" at his Fortress of Solitude. There you have it: When he's not saving the world as Superman, he's monitoring disasters or simply relaxing as Kal-El at his Fortress. There was no reason to claim he had another identity. His foster parents were dead, so it's not like he needed to be Clark Kent in order to visit them.
By the Silver Age, the Clark Kent identity was grandfathered in place despite not making sense on a practical level. He wasn't *really* Clark Kent and the identity did not serve him really as Superman (his powers and the devices at the Fortress could clue him in on disasters more effectively than working at a newspaper and having to come up with excuses for his absences).
********
GREG: In the gold and silver age, I mostly remember Lois suspecting Clark is Superman because he's never around when the action goes down.
SER: What was it JB said years ago: "Peter Sanderson sort of looks like Reagan. Wait a minute. Sanderson and Reagan are never in the same room together. They must be the same person!"
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Greg Friedman
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 16 September 2012
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| Posted: 13 January 2013 at 4:27pm | IP Logged | 11
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There was no reason to claim he had another identity. . .
By the Silver Age, the Clark Kent identity was grandfathered in place
despite not making sense on a practical level. He wasn't *really* Clark
Kent and the identity did not serve him really as Superman
Remember, the Silver Age comics were mostly written with little children in mind as the audience. So the writers and editors weren't wracking their brains about the "logical" reasons for there be a Clark Kent identity.
In the Bronze Age, however, I don't recall the general populace assuming Superman had a human alter ego. Or certainly not a permanent human alter ego. It was assumed that Supes may walk around in any number of human disguises.
And in the BA, he still wasn't *really* Clark Kent and he still didn't need to be a reporter to learn about disasters. But the bronze age Superman held his Clark Kent identity as something very important to him for two reasons: 1) he was raised as Clark by the deceased Kents and he considered this part of his identity. He liked being Clark. 2) It was his means of inter-acting with his friends in a (semi) normal manner without being set apart.
Edited by Greg Friedman on 13 January 2013 at 4:39pm
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Brian Hague
Byrne Robotics Member
Joined: 14 November 2006
Posts: 8515
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| Posted: 13 January 2013 at 5:38pm | IP Logged | 12
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In-story, Superman did not reveal to the world that he had a secret identity. A small-time criminal caught him switching identites and told his bosses who put out a hit on whoever the guy was who Superman changed into. This lead to a story in the press. Once the genie was out of the bottle, the question could no longer go unasked. This happened fairly early in his career. I want to say Superman #17, but I don't have access to my Chronicle TPB's at the moment. Lois' suspicions about it being Clark were born around the same time and proved a driving storytelling force in the feature and popular culture for decades. Lois with no such suspicions or being someone who "in" on the deal is just another kick-ass, modern action-adventure love interest who can out-think, out-fight, out-endure, and out-quip every man in the room, including the hero. Especially the hero. In other words, a complete fucking bore.
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Topic Closed)
